3 Body Problem Review | Netflix

0:00 Hey, I'm Derek. And I'm Noah. You're listening to a Bite of. Where we take our current favorite pop culture obsession and enjoy it 1 Nibble at a time. Or maybe 3 nibbles, depending on your fancy. That's a lot of nibbles. Yeah, all right. Hello, Fellow Bugs 3 Body Problem Review time. Oh man. Heart sci-fi. We've been doing these like major bites recently. It's a lot to process. It's a lot to process, like taking a whole series and figuring out how to review it and talk about it in one episode. But it's fun, right? It. I think it really gets to the nitty gritty of how we feel about something. I think it's a little bit of a challenge. We're going to rise to it.

0:48 Speaking of rising to the challenge, before we get into everything, you know the typical If you're watching this on YouTube, listen to this on the podcast. Make sure you're, you know, doing those things that let us know that you are out there. Let us know that you received our communication like subscribe, send some stars our way. We're still on the our way to 200 reviews. So do that if you like that. Yeah, that's all I'm going to say on that Patreon. We have that like the show support the show 3 body problem. So now the Three Body Problem was, as we all know, based on a book series. Noah has read The book I have not. So Noah's going to give us a little bit of an intro. Yeah, I would say so.

1:30 I mean, spoilers I had, yeah, not for necessarily the book series. So this is going to be interesting because I have read the first book, I'm in the middle of the second book. It's that good. And Derek hasn't. So this is going to be an interesting conversation to somebody that hasn't read the book, what they think and somebody that has and also let us know, you know, make sure you like. Comment below, leave review. Did you read the book? Yeah. Have you read the whole series? That's true. That's something interesting. I'm on my way. I'm trying to make my way to the whole series. All right. So the book SO3 Body Problem is part of the Remembrance of Earth's Past trilogy written by Shu Shu Liu, and it was originally serialized for Science fiction in 2006 before it was published as Stand Alone Book in 2008.

2:18 So that's really cool that it was serialized in this way. And actually makes me think like that kind of would have been cool to read it that way. Like you only get snippets of it as you're going. A lot of sci-fi actually starts out that way because awesome. In 2006, it received the Galaxy Award in Chinese Science Fiction. So it's important to note that this book was originally written in Chinese, which is awesome, because getting a hard this is, I'm going to say this is hard. Science fiction from a different perspective is always fun. That was one of the things that actually drew me to this. I had this book on my TBR for a while and I was like, oh, the series is coming out.

2:58 This is the perfect time. Like I have to read it now. So in 2014, Tour Books picked it up and it got an English translation and later got a Hugo award for it. That's pretty freaking awesome. High praise both in China and here. That's really cool. It took a little bit for it to get there, but it kind of tells you the extent of the series. By 2015, a Chinese film adaptation of the same name went into production. Chinese TV series, which came out last year. Three Body Problem and then now a Netflix series. So it's been on a wild ride, but it's finally here. I would be interested to see the Chinese series to see how if they stuck closely to the book. It's more of a one to one adaptation. It's like 30 episodes.

3:43 I actually really want to watch it. Just to see 30, yeah. And just to see like how the one to one translation does. And also it's from, you know, the same people. So the one thing of note that I do want to say is in the original Chinese book, the parts in the beginning, remember we said spoilers, right? That takes place in the Cultural Revolution was actually pushed into the middle of the book, even though the author initially intended it to be the opener. But because of censorship, they don't want to get censored. So they pushed it further in the book, But then when it was translated into English, they moved it to where it should be. Oh wow. And the author himself is like those bilingual readers.

4:24 I suggest reading this one because that's how he intended. Yeah, so fun little fun little snippet. Yeah, that's really interesting. All right. So should we get into it? So. That was a Little Little Book Club, Little Book Club Corner. You know we love our books here. I love a little book nook come together, talk about some books. We love books. All right, so let us officially take a bite of Netflix's Three Body Problem, created by David Benioff, DB Weiss, and Alexander Wu. Yay Wing Jay becomes part of a secret team in 1960s China that is trying to communicate with beings from another universe. She makes contact and invites them to Earth. In the present, mysterious occurrences begin happening to a group of five Oxford educated scientists known as the Oxford 5.

5:13 Would have known. After one of their mentors takes their own life, it is revealed the alien race known as the Santee have followers on Earth and will arrive in 400 years. Panic ensues and a plan is created to infiltrate the Santee before their impending invasion. All right. Well, I mean, that lays the groundwork for the series. But there's so much that goes into this show, rightfully so. I think a lot of fans of the book were kind of like nervous for it because I feel like there are some, yeah, I would say like maybe 10 years ago or even a little less than that. But like some books you're like, this can't be made for screen, right? Like, how are you going to do that without completely losing a lot of it?

6:01 But as you said, the Beatle that made it so DB wise and Dem Ben and off to Game of Thrones. So I'm pretty good last. Season aside, last two seasons aside, when they have source material, they know what they're doing. That's a good point. So I was, I was very sceptical, but I I trust the process right and. I do know that. I mean, I don't know how involved, but I do know that the author did sort of give them the OK to do this. So it wasn't like they just took something and ran with it. They got his input as well, yeah. They had the the author did sign off on a lot of it, and they wanted to take it out of China and do more of like an international cast, just to wider appeal and to bring different perspectives into it.

6:47 And the author himself was like, yeah, sure, OK, that's cool. Well, one of the major changes that at least I know of is that these five characters don't necessarily exist in the book. It's really one main character that's following the through line. No and yes. There are some like series specifically made characters. All of these characters have different names than the book, but they're they are characters pulled from the third, the second book, and moved forward. One of the critiques that I felt and that I feel like quite a few people share with the first book is that it's like it's a prologue almost to the rest of the series. And reading the first book, it's, you know, sometimes you want that, like emotional connection or like that character concept and stuff like that. And the book isn't that.

7:34 And I think it's by design that it's not that way. But you kind of miss that. So when adapting it to TV, they kind of added that they gave them stories. They have them know each other. So you have that. And so Speaking of the show, how did you feel? How did you feel about the show in a a grander scale? Like what hit for you? I enjoyed the show and I think I think unfortunately I was expecting something a little different. But after watching it and really thinking about it, the way that I've been putting it together in my head is that I thought to myself, OK, Derek, what are two sci-fi movies, recent sci-fi movies that you've enjoyed?

8:14 And I thought Annihilation and Arrival, right. So Annihilation feels more like an action, sci-fi, right? Like running from the beast. Whereas Annihilation is more contemplative and sort of working in a very scientific way to figure out what's going on. And I feel like Arrival and Three Body Problem have a similar feel to it. It's a little more quiet, it's a little more cerebral. And I think once I put it in that frame, I was like, now I get this, not that I didn't get it before. And I just like every episode, I was just kind of like left thinking. So I think that going into this thinking you're going to get like a Fifth Element, you know, blasters, you know UFOs coming in, that is not what you should be expecting. No, not at all.

8:59 And I actually really like that, right? Because we have our sci-fi, kind of sci-fi fantasy stuff that's out there, like Star Wars and all that, where it it's the action, right? It's the spectacle of the thing, it's the gadget. And in this one, it's not that. I mean there is the gadget in the VR headset, but that's really the only like super sci-fi thing that you would normally think of that's in this series or in the show. But I really like that when we start the series, we're in 1960s China during the Cultural Revolution and it starts in such a gruesome and like, oh God way that is real. Like, this is a not that particular instance, but stuff like that did happen. So like for something for sci-fi to start that way, so real and then you get into like what the fiction part of it is, was really cool.

9:49 Yeah. And and I think that that was an extremely strong beginning. And as you obviously watch the entire series, starting Who is Doctor Yay in with that story, with that scene makes so much sense for the character to see her journey and where her thought process goes in dealing with this entire invasion, yeah. I really liked that they. I mean, if you were, if you were to say like the most, like integral or central character in this first season or in the first book, it's yeah, I mean, she the Doctor, yeah. She is very much the catalyst for why everything happens. It really worked with me that they worked for me that they didn't step away from that, right?

10:32 Because they could have very easily been like we're going to kind of like do the 1960 stuff and then like the stuff in the present or the future is more important. And I like that they did mix that really well. They were probably the more compelling parts for me because you you want to see like why she made these decisions. Do I agree with them? I can't really say, right, because I'm not in that position. I mean, to see your family completely, literally get torn apart in such a public way, and that's like what the society is telling you. I couldn't put myself in that situation, yeah. I It's funny, I don't know if it's that I agree with what she did, but I see how she did it and why she did it. And they show her step by step, completely losing her faith in humanity, right.

11:26 So just OK again, spoiler spoiler spoiler. I mean, I said it in the in the little synopsis at the beginning, but she's the one that ultimately ends up inviting the Santi to Earth to take over, right? I did. Want to Sorry, I did want to point out something because like when they kept saying Santi, I was kind of confused because Trislerian is what they are and I think Santi is the actual Chinese name for it. And so they just used it in the show. So when I kept hearing that, I was like, why are they saying Santi? Well. I read an article that said try. So they were named try Solara in the book because it's three sons and whereas Santi IS3 body, right? So it's kind of, you know, A twist on the sort of same concept, right?

12:10 But yeah, that is. But in in the show, they're called the Saunti. And so, you know, in looking at her journey, right, in that first scene, she's watching her father be beat to death and also watching her mother completely betray him and her. Then from there, a fellow person in the camp betrays her by not sticking up for her When they find the English book, a soldier steals her idea from there. And so when she finally meets again the woman who killed her father, who has no remorse for doing it, she's like, there is nothing to save here, right? Right. Everything is awful. Yes. I can't. No one can do anything to make humans act correctly. So please take over.

12:55 Yeah, I. Mean and it's one of those that's that's the point of this book, right. It's like the the philosophical on the scientifical, it's the the real versus like what I'm going to decide, it's the existential versus. I mean, you can keep going on and on and that's like the big broad concepts of this story, which I think is what has kind of propelled it into being in people's minds and continuing to get the attention it deserves because it asks these huge questions. And as far as the the show goes, I think they did a decent job of showing like those types of things. Like you get to see her journey into, like, you know, being an actual prisoner, them being forced to do this thing, and then being presented with this opportunity to like if there's something out there that can make us better or just replace us because we're not doing the right thing, what is somebody going to do in that situation? And the fact that she did it is terrifying. And then her consequences ripple throughout the cosmos and throughout the world, in history. And it's a, it's a great concept to have the Oxford 5 and present.

14:02 How did you feel about them? I think that some of them were stronger than others. I do like though that by the end of these eight episodes you see the role that each of the five of them is playing in this entire journey and I needed that. There was 1 character in particular, Will, who I was really questioning for the first six episodes, not necessarily knowing why he was a part of it, but then by the end he is sort of integral to the future of them fighting the Santi. But I appreciated that in the beginning is like, oh, it's just all about Augie.

14:43 And then it's like, oh wait, no, it's all about Jin. And then Jack has his thing. And so it was nice that each of them had their own set piece and and and role in this entire universe. Yeah. I I feel the same way. I kind of like cast like this where it's like there isn't a main character, it's an A true ensemble cast for like each one plays a part and like maybe it's not apparent until towards the end. But I did like that each one of them almost had their own episodes or reason for being there. Even though it's not apparent, the the story I feel like does do a roller coaster right? It's like there's stuff that's super fast-paced and there's stuff where it's very quiet and very, I don't want to say slow, but it's kind of it's exposition and conversation heavy, right? And you have like an episode where the universe is blinking, and then you have an episode where they're talking about theoretical physics and stuff like that. The character that I think did it for me in the end was Saul. He really, I don't know, just by the end of it, and especially those last two episodes, I was like, I really like this character and he kind of snuck up on me. The character that I felt was weakest for me was Will and I enjoyed his parts towards the end. But like, I don't know.

15:58 The love story between Jen and Will was just a little like, yeah. I think, you know, you touched on it before and saying that this, the season itself is a bit of a roller coaster and it does get, it does slow down in episode six and seven. And that is really when we're seeing the end of Will's journey and that whole love story. It felt like it could have gone somewhere, but they kept stopping it before it went there. And the reason that I ended up in liking Will so much is that I was trying to really think about what do each of these people represent. And so for me, like Saul is the reluctant leader, right? He's used to taking the back seat, but now he has to be a leader.

16:46 I think that Jin is the one that fully believes in science. I think that Augie is the one who was watching the thing that she created be used in the wrong way. Jack is the one who completely turned his back on it. And then he's like. I'm going to go and make money, Jack. Snacks, baby. And Will. The interesting thing about Will is right. He very much accepts his role in the world. He very much accepts his fate. And what's so interesting is that this man who has been told that he's dying, he's diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, he goes with it graciously. And to see that juxtaposed to the rest of the world, who starts to immediately panic when they find out an alien race is 400 years away and some of them even take their own lives. It's so interesting that this person who knew that they were going to die now and could not control it, goes with it willingly.

17:43 And so I thought that was such a deep thing to finally get to that. I thought, wow, that was really impressive for what that character stands for. Yeah. And they they were quiet for most of the series. It's like, oh, he is a teacher now, right? And it's like the rest of them had their parts to play and you don't really find out his part until way later. And then even then, his part is just to be like, yeah, OK, I hadn't just send me into space. I had. Another thought. So, you know, Jin gives him that goldfish. And then I was like, oh, my God, he's kind of the goldfish. Yeah. His brain is just in that canister. Yeah. You. Can't do anything about it.

18:24 Oh, my God, you're you're up to fate at that point. Is somebody going to feed me? Is somebody going to take care of me? All right. P But you did touch on one point that I think is absolutely insane. So the the first season of the show actually bleeds in to a lot of the second book and pull some things from the third book as well. But about episode 5:00-ish, I would say, like when the bugs when it says on all the screens, when the Sofon Sofon thing does its thing on all the screens, it says you are bugs. It's kind of like where the first book ends. So all the wall facer stuff and the will stuff, all of that doesn't happen yet, but it's absolutely insane.

19:09 And one of the coolest things about this series is that like, you find out that yes, there is life out there. Yes, they are reaching out. Yes, there's the whole like cultists and like weird like ETO out there, but they're not going to be here for 400 years, which is insane because like most of the time when we're reading or experiences sci-fi and stuff, they have like warp speed, they can get to where they want to go. It's. World of War? It's a hero, right? But it's like, no, they're coming. And the terrifying thing is, is, like, OK, now what are we going to do as a collective human race to prepare for that escape?

19:53 It Stop them? Like, that's the thing that makes the series. So like, oh, I don't know what I would do. We're going to fall apart. We're going to fall apart. It's funny that you I I in my notes I had written that there's like ABB before bug and AB after bug, because it really does feel like there's such a turn when that happens. And I didn't know that that's how the first book ended. So that makes a lot of sense in seeing it in the series, yeah? Yeah, it's it's such a really cool thing and a a great way to tell this kind of story because it's unique and that like OK, they are advanced, right. One of the conversations that happens in the show is like, you know, we as a human race have advanced a lot from like the industrial age to now in a shorter amount of time from like the medieval to the industrial age.

20:43 But they're way ahead of us, and they are already doing measures 60 years prior to the present in this to stop our science. And like again, the the series has so many like scientifical physical physics in it that are like baffling but like really cool once you, I guess, understand it. Which I didn't. Well, is there something so like in the series so far in the season one, is there something that like you wish you could have understood more? Like, is there something that was more baffling than the rest of it? Yeah. And for me it was so the Sofons. So also they said it so fast and a lot of them have British accents.

21:27 I thought they were saying cell phones a lot, the cell phones, Cell phones. So the Sofons are ever expanding Protons and there are four of them, but two of them are here and they've gone inside all of our technology and they make the stars blink like the exactly. It's it's like, you know, I don't know. It was like they did this, yeah. It's it's one of those things where in the book, I believe it's like Chapter 33 in the book. It's towards the end because in the first book you get the perspective of the Sonti or the Trisolarans and they're doing that. So you get to figure out, you get to see how they took that proton.

22:09 It's all about dimensions, right? It's like our brain can't conceive dimensions higher than whatever. I can't even understand what they're talking about. I was so bewildered by that I still don't understand it. We're not physicists. We're not geniuses. But like the best way I this is just me kind of working it out in real time with everybody Is that like if you took a piece of paper and like it's crumpled up and then you spread it back out, the surface is going to be bigger in two dimensions right from here to like bigger. And So what they did is they took a proton and like stretched it out so the surface becomes bigger. Then they built a computer on it.

22:51 It's like the size of a world and then put it back down to very small, right. And so that it like, transcends dimensions and like that's how they can communicate with the humans in real time and also affect their sciences. And like, it's bananas. I don't understand it, but it's cool as hell, yeah. You know what question always gets me that freaks me out? Do you think there are other colours in the universe that we haven't seen before? Yes. And when you think about it though, you're like, I can't compute other colours, you can't. So that's what that was to me. I was like, I was watching the graphic, I was watching them stretch out the proton and I'm like, what? And then it got really small and it flew somewhere.

23:31 It was in our computers. There's like. Something that's like intertwine quantum, something I don't know, like the. Quantum of Solace Quantumania. I don't like that movie, but there there's like actual theories in this book that are just like they're trying to be proven or they're actual, real things that are being worked on. And it's like if that does exist, like the concept of just a loan of their of a more advanced species out there is terrifying because one why haven't we seen them or have we 3 body problem but like it's just wild to think about. Yeah, it's. Like when I took calculus and my teacher was like, remember how we used to find the areas of parallelograms? We're like, yeah, she's like, OK, but now it's 3 dimensional and now we're just looking for a certain point in that parallelogram and now we're going to find the area of that. It was like, what?

24:30 No. Why? I I love sci-fi. I love hard sci-fi. I love just hearing it. Will I understand it? Probably not. You have to like, lay it out for me, but like, not good at it. I don't like. I'm. I'm glad I am where I am. I wish I could understand it, but I know my strengths. You. Know who I did appreciate. So yeah, when she is younger, when she was explaining how they were going to use the Sun to amplify their signal, I was like, I understood that. There is. She's a good teacher, one of not a good. Mother, but she's a good teacher, she. Is not a good mother in the book. She's not a Good Wife either because she sees an opportunity to kill her husband and she's like, well, well, sorry, well, not necessarily kill her husband, but she has to kill somebody And her husband just just, oh, wow, wow, read the book. It's crazy.

25:22 One of the things that I was missing from the show from a book reader standpoint is there, There's these like, allegories and ways of explaining things in the book that I really enjoyed. And I'm going to get like super nerdy with it. But like, it helped me as a reader to understand some of the things. So there's this thing that is presented in the book called the shooter and the farmer, and the shooter is so say a shooter shoots a target, right? And every 10 centimeters there's a bullet hole or whatever. And say that there's two-dimensional sentient beings on that target. Their law of the universe is every 10 centimeters there's a hole in the universe.

26:06 But that they think that's how the universe works. But it was just the shooter. I'm just shooting a target like it's. But they're creating laws, right? The farmer is Turkey farmer. Every day at 11:00 AM, ghost feeds the Turkey. The scientist Turkey is like every day at 11:00 AM, we get our food. That is the law. That's what's going to happen. It doesn't happen on Thanksgiving because it goes and kills the Turkey. Your whole concept of reality, it's just completely changed. And I think that's one of the cool things that's presented in this story. And they did a fairly good job, I feel like, in this show with doing that. Am I the Turkey? Yes. No, I I think that, like, for trying to adapt something like this, they did a decent job. I don't know if all of the stories kind of hit the way they were supposed to, but I'm glad that there was each one of the Oxford Five, there was something that you could relate to, right? Or, you know, somebody that's like that in the friend group or whatever.

27:07 So I'm glad that they tried to get that human connection in there for a story that is just massive and ambitious like this, yeah. I think that there are certain things, personally, I think in this series that they could have trimmed down a little and made it a little fast pace. And I'm not saying that there needed to be more action. I think that some of the parts where they were really getting into these conversations about the science and what was going on while they were interesting, if you're not understanding it, you could lose it very easily. And so I think if they just trimmed some of that back, the pace would have picked up and it would have felt like it was moving along a little more quickly. You know what I didn't expect in this, Speaking of like, pacing and stuff like that.

27:49 So John Bradley, who is a Game of Thrones alum, I believe there's two other Game of Thrones alum in here. Him dying. Didn't expect that in a very gruesome way, But I really, I really appreciated Jen and Jack's relationship. It was kind of fun to see that, Like, they both really got into the game of it right And they had that connection I was going. To ask what did you think of the game? I liked it. I think visually and spectacle wise, a story like this, it does well for it, like it adds to it. I really liked it because it's like one of those things where, OK, it's a game that's not like a fighting game or anything like that. It's a puzzle. You have to figure it out.

28:30 And then there's an extra layer of like it's just a recruitment tool for the ETO bananas. So I always I like that the story has the detective story in it and then that crazy cults idealistic of like, Nope, we're done. We're doomed. Human race is done. We believe in the Lord and they need to come here and we're going to do it by any means necessary. It's just really smart. It's a smart way to do it. But I my favorite if I had to pick times that they went into the game was during the human computer or calculator when all three Suns lined up and they all just the gravity of it all. Just so cool. Yeah, in case now correct me if I'm wrong, in case you aren't going to watch the show and you're just listening to us and you're like, what the hell is the three body problem? So the three body problem is that this one planet is in the gravitational pull of three different Suns. And dependent of each other, right? And so it's How do you save this world when these three celestial bodies are revolving around it?

29:34 Or just. One of, like, scientifically, that's a real thing, right? It's like one of the hardest things to try to figure out. It's like, how does something like that survive, right, when you have three different things? Yeah. And I know I got some of that wrong, and I know someone's going to be like, no, it's. Pretty much, right, Thanks. Did you have a favorite moment in the three body game? I think, well, I loved that when everybody was floating away. I thought that was really incredible, but I think the most shocking thing are dehydrated human balls. So awesome. They roll them up like fruit roll ups. Oh. Mama, they said, look at this.

30:16 It's like when you take a fruit roll up as a kid, you just smash it together and then you put it in your mouth. They were like. Yeah, yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. That was pretty. It was it was so shocking. But then seeing them come back to life and rehydrate, it was very cool. There's. Side note, in the book, count and follower are in the book as well. The little girl. And when Wong, who is the character in the book that really is an algamation of these five characters. The main through character of the book should say they had. There's a conversation where like you haven't fed me in days. What am I supposed to do? And you won't let me eat the dehydrated. Corky Human jerky.

30:58 It's just it's so funny. They really go into detail of that. Like they have like depositories. You kind of see in the show where there's like those Dome houses where they were like throwing the dehydrated people into the water in there. It's like some people that rehydrated because rats got in there or like some type of vermin and like part of their like, head and they're like bleeding and yeah, it's crazy. Oh my. Gosh, you know, I was thinking about the game. And so we see that Jin gets a headset, right, and Jack puts it on and the, you know, she comes out and she's like, you're not invited. She cuts his head off. And I thought, oh, you know, that doesn't make sense. Because if yes, it was really her daughter's game, then how come Jin could go in it?

31:48 And then I realized, no, it wasn't her daughter's game. She purposely gave it to Jin and she's like, oh, I don't know what it is. I just play, you know, pong Liar. Yeah. Yeah, she is. I love this character so much because she's so complicated. And she goes through this like roller coaster of, like, you know, seeing her in the 1960s and seeing her now and seeing her like, be this leader of the ETO, but then like kind of back peddling a little bit and seeing, like, what she did, It's insane. So insane Can. I talk about a character that I didn't like. I. Know who it is? But yeah. Who? Tatiana. Yes. Yeah. Oh, it's because of my notes. No, no.

32:29 It's because every time when she was hobbling away during the ETO meeting, you're like, I hate her because. So these characters always frustrate the hell out of me because. They're unstoppable. They're. Unstoppable for no reason other than they're just written that they're unstoppable. Can I say I loved her because this, like, look, she has of this, like, completely devoted to her, 'cause just like how she does her face. And like, look, I'm like you terrify me oh. Yeah, the the actor's portrayal is fantastic. It's just that, like, come on, she's crawling on the floor. She went soldiers with, you know, automatic weapons everywhere.

33:14 And she's like nobody notices her. 20 miles just like, yeah. Where did she go? How did she fix it? I'm I'm like I can't stabs Jack in the neck. That's where you're done with it. You're just. This man is like a £250 man and in one she got him No no, Oh. Come on, that's where. That's where you draw the line. Yeah, that's OK. All the theoretical science, I get it. We can't not talk about Benedict Wong as Dasha. What a guy. So cool. The one of the coolest parts about this story Feel like I've said that a lot. I just really like this story and this. Everything is the whole detective and the mystery of it, right?

33:57 There's mystery from mystery. I do feel like some of the mysteries were kind of just like solved and then pushed aside. It's like the whole point of this is to like figure this out and it's like, oh next problem his. Job shifted very quickly. I mean, it's whatever he needs it to be, I guess. Whatever. Wade is like, you're doing this now. He's like, OK, but the whole countdown in the scientists eyes and like, over 30 scientists have been killed and leading up to Auggie getting them in her eye, I liked how he was kind of the one to bring the Oxford 5 into this giant thing, right? His detective story is very compelling. He also has some of the best line deliveries in this. And that's just 'cause it's Benedict Wong.

34:38 Like, when I was reading this book, I knew he was casted as his character. But I'm like, yeah, like this is, I can't imagine anybody else playing this character. He's very good. Yeah. He's so good and I, you know, you fall in love with him as wongers, you know what I mean? And so to see him kind of coming out and playing a whole different character, it was he was great. He was really fantastic. Because you brought up Augie. I think we need to talk about the most gruesome part of this, yes. Yeah, this is like, this is where Dan and DB really shine. Game of Thrones, they are all in on like going and pushing the envelope and showing you these things.

35:21 The scene, the scene in the Panama Canal where her nano fibers are used to literally just kill everybody on Judgement day with no remorse, no way of stopping. It is amazing. It's. Like that scene in that haunted ship movie Go. Ship go. Ship. Yeah. Where the wire cuts all their heads off, Yeah. But instead of that, it's the entire ship. Yes, the way they did that in the book, it's like a page long, that thing. You don't really get all of this stuff. So for it to be played out for like a good chunk of the episode and like being terrified of the thing you can't see and the quickness of people just being sliced and dropped, so cool, I guess. You know what?

36:11 It was a quick death I. Yeah, that's cool. I really liked it. Yeah. Yeah, that was amazing. It was like I felt like I'd been waiting for something like that to happen, so. Cool. It's like. Get them. Get them all with your Nano knives. Slice them. That's what you get for telling them about Little Red Riding Hood and them questioning. Wait, I have. OK, so I have another question. I'm jumping around, but what did you think the significance of the fairy tales is throughout? Because it's not just him reading her the fairy tales. Well, I think I don't know if I know the answer, but this is how I interpreted the reason of them being there is that those are stories that have stood the test of time in that them being actual fairy tales or, you know, legends that people tell.

37:00 These are ways to show lessons and what has shaped us. And so I think the significance of the Little Red Riding Hood one was to show that there is deceit and there is lies and there is a reason for it. And with when you're talking about a, you know, beings that literally don't speak, it's all with their mind. There's no like filter of like, thinking and speaking. It just does. They can't understand that, like they're not able to process that. And that's what really is like, oh, I don't trust you now like I thought I was. You communicated like us, but you don't. But yeah, I generally think it's like that was his way of showing them or like telling them this is how humans are.

37:46 These are the lessons that we learned because they know everything. They've read the Internet. So like, now I need the nuances. They've. Edited Wikipedia, Dante are the best. So is there anything in the show that didn't work for you? Like was there something that really was like hurdle or like just kind of left you, like you can take it or leave it? I think that, like I said before, some of the pacing was a bit of a problem for me. I also think not all of them, but one or two of the characters felt a little one-dimensional to me. So someone like dimension, someone like Wade felt very one-dimensional to me.

38:27 He just like existed as he was. We don't know how he got to where he is. We don't know how he knows all this stuff, OK? I will just say I love a shadow organization. I love give me all of the acronym organizations and stuff like this. Yeah, I mean he he played the character right. It's like it wasn't nothing anything new. I I agree. Sorry. I just wanted to say that like I love the organization of it all. I. Think it's cool that there's some secret organization that's looking at the planet to save them? Definitely. But I I just thought that that character like I don't know why he had so much power. I don't know how he understands physics and also. Does he I?

39:09 Don't know, but he was the OK. Oh, so I had a thought about him, though I'm probably completely wrong because of the. OK, so here's the truth. I fell asleep on the last episode, so I missed the last, like 20 minutes. And so I had this theory before I watched it where I thought that maybe he was part of the Santee because he just knew things like, even when he was like, we need something lighter to go in the ship. Well, you know what I mean? I was like, what? Like he just knows everything. Well, I think that's like the that's him, right. Like he, he is able to, in a way kind of be like, yeah.

39:50 Of like making those hard decisions of like, yeah, this is what we need. I've already been testing this thing us as a human race, even though we can't advance our technology. And it's been a lie for the last 60 years, we've been able to perfect hibernation. So oh, how are we going to spy on them? Let's send a brain up there. You know, like, I I didn't buy it when he was like, I'm going to go up there. I'm like you're a liar. Like you're going to but you're also going to hibernate. I agree with that, but I don't think you're you were going to go up there ever. He's. Like I just want to live forever. But I mean, Liam Cunningham, Game of Thrones alone? Oh yeah, amazing. Just wanted to put that out there. Fantastic in Game of Thrones. Delightful in this.

40:30 I just thought this character wasn't as strong as his Game of Thrones I. Agree. And I I think the one thing that didn't work for me was Augie. I thought actor, great. The character itself, I was just like, OK, like you created the nano fibers. I think the most compelling part of her was to deal with what her life's work has done. And then like, nobody like understanding why she's grappling with this. I thought was great, but that was like a very small portion because then once that happens, it's gone, right? It came to Mexico. So that was, what was it? I agree. That was what was interesting about that character. And it almost felt like that thing that you set up before about some of the mysteries and how they were just solved and then disappeared. I felt like she was similar to that, right?

41:10 She was like very integral in the first episode, In the second episode. And then once Panama happened, she was like goodbye, you know, that was really it. So I I agree that that character, I think, fell a little flat for me as well. Yeah. Overall, I think great. I I I very much liked it. I think they did a good job of adapting it. It's hard. I I can understand why this would be very intimidating. But also we've gotten like two other adaptations. I think there's an animated show maybe I could be wrong on that, but it's like one of those things where it's like, OK, the things that seemed unadaptable might actually be adaptable. Now you just have to make it like, comprehensible for general audiences.

41:55 And I think that you can see why they made some of those changes to like, make it like a show that most people would enjoy, yeah. And I I think really creating those human relationships and giving the Oxford 5 those back stories was definitely helpful in grounding it a little bit instead of just being one person doing a whole bunch of science. Yeah, you know, we got to meet these other people. Is there like a science thing that happened or like one of the big things like the staircase or the boat and stuff like that? Is there just one of your favourites? Like, what is your favorite one that happened or you thought was like a cool sciency thing thing, I thought. That the the staircase was a cool sciency thing?

42:36 I think so. I I struggle with dealing with death in the afterlife and thinking about it. Death scares me very much. And so I keep thinking about Will's brain. Yeah, and that scares the shit out of me because what state of being is he in? And now that's it. I. Mean. Yeah. It's like, I think the thing that hit me with that particularly is when he's talking to Saul in the bed now, where he has to answer those questions of like, yes, for sure. I want to do this is that like Saul is like trying to give him scenarios of like, what if they do get you and then they reanimate you or whatever?

43:19 And he's like, OK then I'm then I am what I am. He's like, what if you're a pet? He's like, then I am what I am. What if you don't make it there? He's like, I'm dead anyway and it but like, the thought of the possibility of any of those happening is like, oh shit. But now he's just there. He's out there and like the the concept of isolation that the show does, even though it's on such a huge scale, is very kudos to them for doing that. And that particular one is terrifying, yeah. It really scares me. And I, you know, in my mind, I guess the cryogenic freezing at some point will just run out maybe, and then he'll die.

44:01 Maybe. He's already dead, right is. He though he's frozen in a state of not dead and not alive well. I think Jen had said it's like not another like 5 million years or something like that before. He's like out of the solar system. It's like goodbye. No the the sciency thing. We're scientists. We know. We are Twice's version of scientists. We are K pop scientists. That I I Can't Dance, that I really liked is the Sofon thing in that they were able to completely stop science and the progression of it, and so much so that for 60 years scientists just thought, this isn't working, this isn't working.

44:47 Like science is broken. How am I going to know why outside force doing it? That is terrifying. Because it's like if somebody here thought of that, what if somebody out there thought of the same thing or worse and it's like happening now. Maybe that's why we don't have flying cars by this time. I don't know. Thanks for nothing. It's. Scary. Yeah. No, it is really. Scary. And the fact that it's not even, I mean, it even goes beyond that, right? They can put themselves in our minds, they can make us see things, They can make the stars blink. They just have total control over us. And it's 1984, dystopian because they're watching us all the time.

45:27 The only thing they can't see inside is our thoughts our. Brains, wall facers, that's where it all comes in, which is such an interesting and so cool concept. There's just like, even if like, you're not jiving with the show, which I feel like it's going to be hit or miss for a lot of people. Like, I I first five episodes, I'm like, this is amazing. Didn't struggle, but I was just like, OK, OK, OK, OK for the other ones. But the concepts of all of them are so intriguing to think about, especially the wall facers. It's like, OK, they can know everything, They're everywhere, but they can't read your mind. So we're going to pick people that are never going to tell anybody what they're planning.

46:09 That's terrifying and really cool at the same time. I want an entire episode of Saul just thinking about stuff, just sitting. In that meditation room, just. Just like. Snickering to himself, I got the best plan. OK, so wrapping it up, I hope we get another season. From what I've read and from what I have heard, the next two books are insane and there's so much more that happens in them. First book was more like a prologue leading up to it. So there's some things that I've already read I'm very excited to see. I hope it gets a second season. Go watch it if you haven't. Watched it. I don't necessarily think that this is for everyone and I think that you should go into it with an open mind and not expecting, you know, the big.

46:59 The star. Wars thing, right? I think that if you really take it in and think about it, you can appreciate it more, which is what I did. And I really am interested in knowing what happens next because there's this period of 400 years and in in I'm just going, is there going to be a time jump? Are we ever going to see them come or is it always just going to be this lead up of everyone panicking? It's. Like a race of a race to find out. Like, do we escape? Do we fight? How do we prevent it when we can't even advance our own technology? Like, yeah, it's crazy you. Know and the fact that they killed two of the Oxford Five, it makes me feel like, well, we might not win this one. Might not.

47:44 I guess. We'll see. We're all bugs. But you know what? Bugs can survive anything. They're always. Beetles. Mosquitoes. Why dung beetles the 1st? One, they're all poop. OK, everybody. 'S like EW poop and they're like watch this, we could be poop rollers. Like we are. In the grand scheme of things, you're right. You're you're right. So if I had to rate it, I get a four, four to five visually great stylish sciency as hell. Made me believe that all of these people were geniuses and we didn't get the whole in English. Please, I hate that. I hate that. When somebody's supposed to be smart, it just completely takes me out of it.

48:26 And we didn't get that once. So that's kudos to that great adaptation. I liked it 5. Four out of five out of five, Four out of five out. Of five? Yeah, that's physics. I think for me, I initially upon finishing it I think was going to give it a 2 1/2, but after thinking about it and talking about it, I'm going to give it a solid 30. Nice. OK. Yeah, that's. I was really worried because we have our different likes, right? And it's like I'm very I can sit with something that is like kind of boring or whatever. Not to say you wouldn't, but it's just like what we usually read and stuff like that. And like when I was reading the book I was like, oh man, I'm really interested to see what he's going to think of this. And I was, I was happy that you open mind and you enjoyed it for the most part.

49:15 Well. It's interesting because we had watched the first two episodes separately. You were away at a conference and I was home. And so we we did talk about it. And what was so interesting is that I felt like these these first two episodes, they were there was a slow build up there, but I always wanted to watch the next one. And so that's the thing while I was like kind of like wishing it was going a little faster, I always wanted to know what happened next. Right. Right. And so I think that is something that is a great thing about the series, is that it keeps making you want to watch it. Yeah. So let us know what you thought. Yeah, let us know your favorite thing, Your least favorite thing. What confused you the most?

49:57 Do. You Are you able to explain the science better to us than we have today? Please. Do hey and also our mailbox is always open, so if you want to write something a little longer or just like e-mail ABO nibblesgmail.com that's always open. Well, hope to hear from your friends. All right. So till next time. Till next time. Goodbye. Bye.