'Agatha All Along' Finale EPs 8 & 9 Review | End of the Witches Road

0:00 Are you a good witch or are you a bad witch on the road? I think we're all just bitches. I'm Derek, and that's Noah, and we're feeling extra special and magical to wrap up Agatha all along on a bite of Oh my God, glitter chest hair. I mean, I do have to say amazing, like glitter beard. So one thing about Derek is anytime there's a festive activity, glitter beard and it is amazing. Thank you. If you cannot see us, YouTube or Spotify, please. We did all this work.

0:45 Watch this I and I have to say something about Noah and that Noah is a detail person. So I was just like, yeah, green face paint. And then he was like, oh, I got yellow. I was like, yellow for what? He's like highlights. And then he's like, oh, I got this. I'm like, what's that? He's like, it's setting powder. I was like, oh, so Noah looks spectacular as well. And absolutely put in the effort for this. Amazing. Alphaba No, I mean, I'm, I'm going more like wicked Witch Agatha. You know, we're very much obviously episode 7. You're Lilia. I'm Agatha. When this comes out, it's past Halloween, but Halloween is all year round. We figured why not get fun when I get festive?

1:25 We just talked about, oh, Joe Locke can dress up as a a witch, why not us? And I have to say, I think this is like our first time. I mean, I don't know if you would consider this drag, but it's like our first time. Really like playing with makeup and stuff. Look at us radar fits. Feeling fancy? I'm trying not to move too much because this is like I feel like the closest to a corset I'm ever going to wear. It just fit you like a glove. Oh my. God, all right, so. Zipped right up like butter, it was beautiful. I'm going to try my hardest to keep a straight face while while we're doing this, but Agatha all along 2 episode finale, it's finally over.

2:05 We got all of our questions answered. Question mark, we have a lot to discuss this one. Spoilers ahead for Agatha, for MCU, for comic book stuff, for, you know, just anything and everything. And you know, this is not a Wicked promo. Just want to put that out there, starting that. The timing is impeccable. All right, so let us officially take a bite of Agatha All Along. Episode 8, Follow me My friend to Glory at the End written by Peter Cameron and episode 9, Maiden Mother Crone written by Jack Shaffer and Laura Donnie, both episodes directed by Ganja Montero. Billy's existence has thrown the natural balance off, and death wants to collect what is owed. Agatha, Jen, and the teen enter the final trial where secrets are uncovered.

2:53 A glimpse into Agatha's past shows how the road was paved and what lies ahead may have trials of its own. Oh my God. OK, so credits roll. Agatha episode 9 ended. How do you feel about, let's just say, the series and these two episodes? How do you feel about the ending? So I think the series as a whole was incredibly strong. It was a lot of fun. I think that they just brought everything we had wanted right as far as the last two episodes. I loved getting a back story moment right. That was something that we were waiting for all season. But I do think that some things that were revealed felt a little questionable to me as far as too simple in a way or not explained enough. So the ending, I think it left us on a really good point. But to get to there, I have some questions, OK. How about you?

3:51 I think we'll obviously get into those. I really liked it. I think that from a story standpoint and a technical standpoint, masterful. I mean, every single thing that they did from the beginning was called back to towards the end. But I do agree. I, I feel like there are some things where they gave us, they're like, hey, look at this thing. They dangled the carrot in front of us and then they were like, we're not going to mention it again or like really show you anything. You're just going to have to trust us, which I feel like that's myself. That's how we're trained with TV now. Because I was thinking back, I'm like, why do I like, why am I upset that they didn't show us this thing? And I think it's because everything now they have to show us when like if I think back to Lost or even Doctor Who or something, like I feel like I mentioned those two shows a lot, but they don't have to show us everything, right?

4:42 It's like it's more about the journey. It's about the thing that happened. And you just have to like be like, OK, this was inferred. This is fine, right? So that's my own thing that I have to work through, but I do feel like some things could have, you know, used a little more breathing room. But as far as these two episodes, I loved, you know, the flashback episode. I I like it when they give us that. So I guess starting out, let's get into the episode, because I feel like I don't want to be like these are the things that are amazing and these are the things that aren't before we get into it. But to starting out, I'm glad we got Alice one more time. Am I still salty that she died? Yes. Yeah, I agree. And it was it was like, oh, OK, it's official, right? Rio collected a body or a spirit or whatever it is. But at the same time, it was like kind of heartbreaking because Alice is like, this is so unfair. I finally broke the curse and now you're taking me. So it's just one of those things where a character you love gets an ending that seems not right, just because we love them and we want them to be happy.

5:45 Right. And then again, it's us, right? I don't think death is fair. I think both of these episodes really showed that. Like, sometimes boys die, you know? How dare you? This early in the episode. I'm sorry, Wicked Witch. OK, I'm sorry. I didn't paint my hands, but I did paint my nails. I just, I'm sorry, this green makeup is really just bringing out the green in your eyes. They look like crystal green. It's just magical. Thank you. Yeah, I, I this paint actually doesn't set well, so I didn't want to get green everywhere anyway. Yeah, I mean, I think, but I think that line is so important. One, it's a devastating line. When we get to the 9th episode or when it comes up, I feel like that episode is so incredibly sad.

6:32 I'm very surprised that we got it in this show, but I shouldn't be surprised because of Wanda Vision. I mean, Wanda Vision, especially the episode with Agatha and Wanda going through her memories and everything was like, oh shit, I should have realized that it was going to be a 12 gut punch and this one. But I do feel like Alice, like even though she was upset and she was us in that moment of like, I just lifted the curse, I like just got to like I can finally live again. And we all felt that way because it was like she did hurt the curse. She got rid of it and then Rio's like, you were a protection witch, You died protecting someone, protecting someone. And it's like, OK, fine, death. But also I don't like it.

7:12 No, I don't like it at all. Now, do you think we need to question why we saw Rio take Alice, but we didn't see her take Lilia? I think Lilia's death, I think it ended properly. Like, I don't think we needed to see her on like impaled and stuff, you know, and like her ushering her, her spirit away. I think we needed to see death do her job. And I, I'm glad it was Alice because Alice didn't get that much screen time. So at least we got to see her a little bit more. Can I throw a hypothesis out there that just lets Lilia survive? Is that fair? Oh sure. So as we see later in the episode is that once you achieve your goal right in the trial, you kind of pop out on top of the earth.

8:00 You're out of it. So maybe Lilia in sacrificing herself and knowing that she has a coven and seeing that she had so much fun, which is the one thing that she always wanted to have a family to fit in. Before she hits the swords, she pops out and she's actually I feel. Like we need a different word than pops out, but Oh no, it's just so. Silly. She emerges. She's the road. That's too clinical. She. She. No, I don't know. OK. I'm too pretty to think of big words. I can't. Oh, my God. It's taken over. Glenda would know, though. She.

8:41 She. You are Lilia in this. That's true. What would I? What would I say? Well, OK, so I think if we're going with that, there is a moment in the seventh episode where she tells Agatha when she's leaving, when she calls you a coward duck. And we see that that's in the ninth episode, that's in the finale. So how did Lilia see that? Because everything that we have seen so far is Lilia is there experiencing that in some way. And my only guess, and this is to go just to counter your theory a little bit, is that her spirit is there somewhere and she saw it happening. But I do like the thing that we were talking about earlier where when we see her younger self and she gives that smile and it's like, oh, she can finally like, live her life knowing that she was in her power, had a covenant and everything like that. Like she's strong in her abilities. I don't know.

9:35 It's like one way or another, but I like to think that she is there. I don't know. But but I, I I don't know. Could she have left? Why not? I mean. Then like it would be weird if we never saw her again. Well, that's what I'm saying, is that we now have the option to see her at some point. I mean, right, there's all this, we have the Vision show, there might be some sort of Scarlet Witch movie. Maybe there's going to be Billy all along or something, or Wiccan all along. So maybe she'll be back. Maybe. Can can Wiccan feel her? I don't know. Oh my God, this, this boy does this boy. OK, so going what did you think about the Agatha and Rio conversation prior to Jen and Billy catching up to to them?

10:17 And this is the moment where we get kind of the crux of the ending episodes of that boy is an abomination. You need to give me his body like he should not be. He shouldn't exist. He got a second chance at life. This shouldn't happen. I think this conversation just kind of, I don't want to say confused me, but it really was asking the question is who is Agatha going to be right? And so basically she has to get Billy to surrender himself to death, to volunteer to leave. And so we're seeing again, is Agatha telling the truth or is she lying?

10:58 Is she going to get it to happen or is she just telling death that so that they can move on and keep going? I mean, that's one thing that I love about Agatha. Again, you never know. You do not know even up until the last second, even when Wiccan gave her some of the power back and everything and he came back for her. The very end when they're battling outside of Ralph Boner's house in the backyard and she was going to leave him. And then when she find when he like broke through with telepathy and was like, is this how Nicholas Scratch died? And somehow that changed her mind. But then she ended up sacrificing herself, right. So it's interesting. Even up until the last second, Agatha was still going to be Agatha.

11:40 But which one is actually true? And I think that is something that the series was trying to figure out. And I like that it still left it with she can be good. She doesn't have to be wicked. She doesn't have to be bad. And it really depends on her covenant, who's there with her. I did think it was interesting that he, like, she can't just take his soul. He has to willingly give it up. That is really interesting. And I'm not sure if that's just like the nature of whatever we're doing here, right? They had to set up some rules and it was like, oh, that's why Rio couldn't just end this whole thing, right? Yeah, because I guess Rio can't. Rio isn't the one killing you, right? You have to die and then death takes your soul. So she can't just go around slashing people to kill them just to take their souls, right?

12:28 She can't just reap them because she wants to. So it's it's like the actual act of dying has to be on the menu already for her to order it, you know? For her to follow through or you cheating death in some type of way right? It's just interesting that she's so hung up. She's so hung up on Billy, she can't stop. It's just that natural balance in the world and she can feel that and so, but again, it's like just like wait for him to fall down some stairs or something. You know, well, he's been doing pretty fine for the last three years. You know, we get to this moment where, you know, The thing is set right. Agatha's like, OK, I will convince him to do that. But when I die a long, long, long time, 26 minutes later, I don't ever want to see your face, which I felt was really heartbreaking.

13:19 But when we actually found out what happened with Nikki and everything, it made sense. And if you think about it, she's reliving that same thing again, right? This, this boy that she loves in some way that she cares for, you know, very much mirrors her relationship to Nicholas, her son. And so here is death again, waiting to take that from her. So how do you? How do you what? Sorry, it's just like listening to the conversation and then seeing what you look like. Oh my God. This little magical pen. This is my. Word. I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to derail you a little. Bit I mean, how could I not feel magical at this? You look magical.

14:01 It's. Just like we're talking about death and it's like, you look gorgeous. Listen, there's a balance in life, right? There's light and dark down to us right now, in this moment. Anyway, I forgot what I was saying, but that's fine. So. Oh, right. So again, So you know, we never really saw the love story, right? Oh my God. We but we did see that they are very weird exes who still see each other and. And disagree on things. Yeah. OK, I'll, I'll, I have some thoughts on like the Agatha Ria thing. We'll get to it after the trial. I feel like because I feel like it would be a weird thing to split up. Right. OK, it's our it's our episode.

14:43 We do what we want. Yeah. I, I, I agree, though, I think that she saw a lot of Nikki in Billy and really, I don't know, tried to hang on to having that relationship as much as you can. And also, in the end, mentoring, right? And that's what she ultimately should have been doing, especially with the coven. She belonged in a coven, not killing covens. So when we got to the point where you see the shoes and it's a circle, right? I think that's when I think for us, it really clicked of like, oh, OK, like, this is like, yeah, we know what's happening here now, Like something fishy is going on. And then knowing that the last trial was pretty much in the basement of Agatha's house, but it was a green witch trial with no green witch, right?

15:34 How did you feel about the last trial? What did you think? Well, I do want to say that it seems like the Witch's Road is just a board game, right? You just pass, go, but you do not collect $200. As far as the last trial, I thought it was interesting, right? What was it trying to signify again? I guess death, right? They wake up in a morgue. And how do you bring life out of death? So I thought it was an interesting concept. I think the more that we're talking about it, the more I am realizing that these two episodes were literally just all about death, you know, not the character, but just dying in the act of death. And so I thought that it was cool. I like that it was stark. All the other ones were a lot more fanciful. And in this moment, it felt a little more desperate, right? How do we get out of here?

16:16 Even with the ticking lights? You know, I thought that that was really genius. And, you know, as the lights are going out, it's getting darker. So death and getting and failing is getting closer and closer to them. And with the grow lights, that was really cool. Jen really knocked it out of the park. I I'm glad she got her moment right. So if she would have gone, if she would have taken the right fork when she was overly in the tunnels and left, she would have never got unbound. I I thought this was a really powerful moment for Jen. I loved the unbinding ritual, but the fact of like, it was Agatha that bound her.

16:58 It Did you think, do you think that Agatha knew or do you think that she didn't know or kind of knew? Personally, this was one of my biggest hang ups about these two episodes. Was that out of nowhere? We just learned that it wasn't the scary guy that took her powers and it just turned out to be Agatha, who was, quote, passing through. Like, I would have loved a flashback moment of seeing Agatha just being in the same area as that guy to just connect them together, other than just her being like, oh, yeah, I just did it for some money. So that didn't sit right with me. I will not I agree. I I think that it was like an easy way to do it right? Because I guess how else would How's my hat? I felt like it was like falling off. I felt like, how would they have unbound her magic in the trials, Right.

17:53 And they could have made-up any type of rule. I do like that you have to either use or whatever the person that bound you to unbind you. So having that moment of it being Agatha that did it and showing that again, she fucked over somebody that like she shouldn't have done in the 1st place. Yeah, I, I mean, I think it's easy. I do think one line that she did say, she was like, either do it or burn, you know. So I think that they were going to either burn Agatha unless she did it. So it's like Agatha didn't really have a choice. But the fact that she knew that probably could have been Jen and left her like that for 100 years is like just perpetuating this thing if like Agatha doing the thing that everybody thinks she would do. Yeah, it, it, it feels like, you know, other than Death's actions, Agatha kind of knows everything, right? She, she knows what everybody's doing. She knows who everybody is.

18:49 So how did she forget that she was the one that bound Jen, you know? So, you know, when you bind another witch, does it give you power? So maybe she was unwilling to unbind Jen because she was afraid that she wouldn't get all of her power back. Well I I literally think it was because they were going to kill her. Like she didn't have a choice. I just mean in this in this moment, meeting Jen and knowing that she was the one that did it, you know, although I guess if you've killed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of witches, most likely it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And maybe you can't keep tabs on everyone you effed over. So not at all. So I guess I'll give I'll give Agatha that grace. But you know, I I didn't like you said, I love this moment for Jen. I thought that the sheer Zameida did an incredible job in acting in this, and it was nice to just see one of our coven members be able to.

19:41 I wouldn't even, in my mind, succeed. Yeah, 'cause I was going to say defeat Agatha, but that's not it. But you're right, it's the opposite. Succeed and do what they went there to do and to get the prize back of her power. Because in this whole thing, although Jen was selfish in a lot of the trials, which Agatha points out, she loved Lilia. She cared for Teen. I think she liked Alice too. So. She was very she had to be protective of herself because she was the only one watching out for herself for the longest time. But at the end she came to love her coven and so I think her journey was worth it and she deserved getting her powers back. Yeah, I I love the like I deny your power over me. Oh, so good.

20:23 And just like chanting over and over to release that she took a lot of hair from her, but she deserved it. Yeah, she deserve it. RIP her hair off. But I agree. I think that Jen deserved it and you know, if you look at all these witches, they all did things that they needed to do to survive as a witch. She would think that would do over the centuries. I don't blame her one bit, but I'm I'm very excited to see if we're going to see her again. I know that there's rumors of her going to be in the Midnight Suns movie. There's a Midnight Suns rumor happening. So it's very supernatural side. I'm like Edward, call it Midnight Sun. Oh no, I was like, why are you looking like that? No, this predates that.

21:05 Gotcha. Obviously so it's a it's a supernatural team, so it's going to be really interesting if we do see her. But that moment where you see her get her power back and that she's just on the floor and just such like relief and, you know, being finally whole is just a beautiful thing to see. Yeah, that piece of her was missing for so long, and finally she was reunited with it. Yeah, I was really, really happy for Jen in this. I thought that was exciting. Woo Hoo. So now the rest of this trial, right? Because Jen disappears. And so again we see Agatha helping Billy achieve his goal, which kind of goes against what we thought she might do as far as Rio is concerned.

21:47 This is where it gets interesting. I think she kept going back and forth. She was like flipping and flopping. Whenever she's presented in front of Rio, she's one way, and then when she's with Billy, she's another. I think when she's faced with the fact that Billy could possibly die again, when Billy reminds her, is this how Nikki died, I think she realizes and she wants to help. I thought this last two parts with them figuring out this is the end of the trial. Once you like do the thing you're supposed to do, you're out. It was very intense, which I liked. I think Billy, who crafted this all. It was Billy all along, right? We knew, we, we theorized that, but for it to actually be that and then to think of everything that happened, it was like, it's so interesting that Billy created this thing, but it's still functioned with the rules that he created and he just didn't know it.

22:41 Him having to find a vessel for Tommy, and on top of that finding the vessel of Thomas Shepard, that's the body that Tommy goes into. And one I love that they keep finding names where it's like Tommy and Billy, they're like nicknames of William and Thomas. But it's so incredibly sad of he found a vessel and he says nobody loves him and he's currently being drowned, drowned from bullying is so incredibly sad. I don't know. I just wanted to make sure we didn't like, skirt over the fact of like the body that Tommy is going into and the life he's going into is so sad. And Billy is going to have to like find him. He has to find him.

23:24 Quickly save him and imagine you're Tommy and you've been put in this body that has this horrible life and here comes your twin brother looking all fancy in his costume and like just living it up for the last however long. I I think there might be some bitterness there. It there is a question though, because we, we found out from Rio that Tommy is out there. He's like there, he's just not in a body. He's floating, right. And I, I believe there was something that she said of like if this body dies, like if William's body dies, Billy will just reincarnate again. So it's going to be really interesting to see if that's like a thing that they can keep doing because of how they were made.

24:04 Yeah, I think, I don't know, like does he know everything that was happening? Tommy, his like spirit? If not, it's going to be interesting of like will he know who Wiccan is when he goes and finds him? Right. And also, does this now still have that imbalance that death hates so much? I think. So right, it's the same situation as Billy. So it's almost like not only do they have to save Tommy from the life that he's been put into, but they also have to figure out a way to outsmart death again. I mean, it's going to be interesting because is the fact that she got Agatha enough to balance out the scales of Tommy and Billy? Because I'm wondering if from a story perspective, it's like, OK, we're going to have to do with death again going after Billy and Tommy.

24:57 But I guess maybe that's their story starting out as they have to go. I don't. I'm not too sure. Yeah, I guess we'll have to see. But I think it was, again, we see Agatha, who is just always having these internal struggles. She helps Billy achieve his goal and then Billy disappears from the road. Seeing Agatha figure out what she needs to do, taking the dandelion seed and growing it from her tear and doing like what she call it like analog magic to literally grow it with the last remnants of a grow light. I mean, I just Catherine Hunt needs an award for this. Even though, like, Billy did take I, I think they shared the spotlight, even though it was Agatha's show.

25:38 I think Agatha and Katherine Hahn really, really sold it. Yeah, sold it. And you could tell that she loves this character. She's and it's a really complicated character to play. There's so much internal struggle. There's so much balance. There's so much of her past hundreds of years that her have inferred her actions that I think that Katherine Hahn had to do a lot to balance to bring it to life. And you know, as we mentioned before, this is when we get that beautiful and heartbreaking line. You know, sometimes boys just die because Billy's so concerned saying, am I killing this other boy to bring my brother to life? And she's saying, no, you're not.

26:19 He's just dying. Because sometimes boys just die. Yeah, which she knows too well. Absolutely. That's what she's lived. It's the it's probably the thing that's driven her to do everything that she's done. Well, I think we see that. I, I, I do have some. Yeah. When we get to it, we'll get to the flashback of like that relationship between the mother and the son and like what the mother's going through and how she treats the boy and stuff like that. Wrapping up the the 8th episode I think you know when she finally is like busts out of the basement. She didn't disappear. She had to like literally claw her way out of it. I'm curious if that was Rio starting to do that. I thought it was hilarious to see the Westview residents again be like oh God is this happening again? Is it another hex?

27:07 They're just like, come on, people, not again. These poor people are just trying to get on with their lives. They've had Wanda, they've had to deal with Agatha playing, you know, spy shows and now this whatever's happening. So I I hope that they're relieved in some way. I. Guess they, you know, just seeing the green swirling clouds with some insane death entity cackling on the roof. It was nice to see them like one last time. What did you think about the the final fight between Agatha Wiccan and Death and then also the costume reveal of Wiccan and everybody else having costumes? Yes. I loved the costume reveal. I thought that was awesome.

27:50 I mean him just floating and wielding his power and it was very much a cool modern take on the on the costume, right? It wasn't so superhero Y, it was more like I'm a teenager who found these kind of cool clothes in my closet and I have a Cape. Yes, yeah. I mean, it, it looks exactly like what little Billy and Westview wore for Halloween, right? Because they knew what his costume looked like. But it was a nice, like, upgraded, more mature version of it. But it does give off like, oh, this is a cool moment of like seeing like, oh, this is what he's gonna look like. But it's very much like this is a first costume, right? It looked beautiful. It looked amazing.

28:30 That hood so good. It looked like light and like heavy at the same time. Daniel Sellen, who is the costume designer for the show, go look at their Instagram because they show you a closer look at the the suit. What is so cool is that they found a way to incorporate vision into it as well, because it very much looks witchy, right? You have the red cloak like Wanda Scarlet Witch, but the inside the lining of the cloak. When you get a closer look at it, it looks like Visions, like kind of like machine lines and stuff like that. I'll put it up on this video and you can see it. But yes, definitely go look at it because he really shows you a closer look at it and you can see parts of vision inside the costume, which just made me love it even more.

29:16 I think this looks great. I like that he doesn't have the headband like he does in the comics, but he has more of like a Wanda's crown, so it alludes more to his mother. Just a great moment. I'm like, yeah, I'm really now sold that he's Wiccan. Like Joe Locke is Wiccan. Yeah. And I think he looks phenomenal. And I love all those details that you pointed out, you know, especially since we're back in Westview, you know, it's just reminding us, don't forget where this all started. This all started with Wanda and Vision. And I also love seeing that Billy is, I think, good, right? Especially against Agatha's questionable good slash bad. And he came back, right? She helped him achieve his goal, so now he wants to give her her goal of giving her her powers back. And that's something that I think took a lot of bravery because you never know with Agatha, you never know. He literally saw her kill Alice, so he took a chance. Yeah, he had to take a chance.

30:18 And there was a moment where I was like, OK, like, he's starting to look like a skeleton. Stop it. I think at that moment, I was literally audible at the screen. OK, I got the yes. OK, I got the yeah, stop it, stop it, stop, stop. So it's a really good moment to show that Agatha did show some restraint because I think she knew at some point, like, oh, if I want to at least get away from death or figure something out, I need his help. And we got to see some of Billy's power, not only, you know, he created the road and he had magic on autopilot just like his mother. But we saw that he was able to not defeat death, but literally push death away a couple times. Rio was just scary, terrifying and scary, you know, throw instincts at people, pushing them away. It was terrifying.

31:05 But getting that final moment of Of course, the only kiss that we get between our ladies is the kiss of death, which it's like man lesbians. And I mean, that's just I'm sorry, but that is so like 1997 gay storyline where the only time, like once they kiss, they have to die. So do better Marvel. You know, we were really we were really pleased with you the last episode, but now you just didn't do it right. You didn't do it right. I do have to say though, it was beautiful. It was so beautiful. I think we, you know, we got the moment. I was really scared that Agatha was going to die. I was hoping it wasn't going to happen. So I didn't talk about it. I didn't want to put it out there. And I was like, the more we got closer was like, Oh no, Oh no, she's going to die. I think her finally giving up everything to save somebody that she saw her son in it was beautiful. I think her kissing Death and then floating up and like, you know, with her cloak in the black and everything, and then finally laying down, turning instantly back to the earth was great.

32:11 And I feel like that was partly Death. Death was giving her a nice burial. Death was giving her flowers and making sure it was beautiful. Then you could see in Death's expression that like, you know, this sucks that we came to this point. You know, nobody has gotten special treatment like Agatha did with Death. You can tell that Death loved her. For whatever reason, we never saw it. I'm just believing that they loved each other. But it was great. It was beautiful. And then that final shot of death with the sun hitting her, but you could see the skull, like her true form. Oh. Seeing it in the light was so scary. Yeah. So hot though, too.

32:52 I was like, oh. That's Aubrey Plaza. I I just think that this showed Death doing her job. And even if she's not so pleased with what she has to do, like she said around the campfire, that time I have to do these things because it's my job. I have to do it. And so why not put your lover to rest and have beautiful flowers bloom from the earth? Yeah. So that was gorge. That's like pretty much the last time we see death. And then aside from the flashback, I'm curious if we're going to see death. Going forward, she's got to be back, yeah, especially within these storylines. I would think so.

33:32 I mean I'm I'm curious what she thought about Thanos though. Of just like taking out half of the population of the universe. Like how did she feel? Does she know? Yeah, I don't know. She was just like, all right, come on, everybody. I wonder what happens when they come back. I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I wonder how. I'm curious how she felt about all of that. She's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Too many. People, the paperwork. Yeah, but I, I, I liked that in the last episode that we really saw her and we got to see like her abilities and what she's capable of, like literally tearing a hole in space-time. But also it was like really meta because it was a sound stage. It was just really cool. Which should have been our clue all. Along all along, yeah.

34:12 And then getting the moment of Billy mirroring Wanda at the end of Wanda vision and putting on the hood, walking away from all of the people that, you know, we're in Westview and then getting in the car, which I you know, part of me is like, I'm glad that he did take the vehicle, right? Is he just going to leave the car there on the street? But it's like, I mean, couldn't you just like, I don't know, magic it? Yeah, he he flew in right? And then and then he's like beep, beep getting into his car. But I guess, you know, at the bottom of it, he's still a 16 year old with parents whose car he probably borrowed. So he's probably like, I got to bring this back to mom and dad. But I'm watching it going. This is an all powerful sorcerer. And here he is getting into his little car and just being like, bye everyone.

34:59 Wanda did the same thing when she went to SWORD. She drove in her little like, I don't know that's true. I guess why? Why use your powers if you don't have to? Yeah, it's just silly. It's just like funny to see them in their costume getting in the car. He's still getting used to it. I did think it was interesting that he took off his costume when he went to go see his parents, Rebecca and Jeff, and we find out that he's been gone for 24 hours, so it wasn't as long as we think. Obviously it was going to be shorter. So I, I think that's interesting that he decided to not show them like that side of him yet. So I'm curious of like when we're going to see him again and what that's going to look like. Like, is it going to be a Young Avenger situation? Is it going to be in the Vision show? It's going to be wherever Tommy is, right? And then we get Agatha as a ghost. We finally got comic book accurate Agatha and it's ghost version.

35:56 I love it. I think Catherine Hahn going forward in the MCU as this like magical witchy ghost mentor is amazing and also Rio hates it. Rio doesn't like ghosts. She literally said in the episode where Alice dies Agatha's trial. I hate ghosts and she became what Rio didn't like. Which is I I do. Kudos to Rio for holding up her end of the bargain. She's kind of spitting, spitting in Death's face a little bit. And I do love the fact that Agatha, even in her ghostly form, came back to be like, duh, how did you not know?

36:38 I knew from the second that freaking door in the floor appeared that you're just like your mother. Yeah, we got the, we got the wizard, Wizard, Wizard of Oz moment of like, you were there and you were there and you were there when he was in his room of just like, oh, all of these things in my room were in the road. You know, and we come on, yeah, we we spoke about kind of the reveal of it just being kind of Wanda 2 point O the whole situation. And I still don't feel like it was an exact replica of Wanda vision. So it felt different enough to me to be like, oh, still cool, still got it. And the fact that Agatha knew all along, you know, she gave us the clues in almost every episode of telling him you're just like your mother.

37:22 This is what she would do. It was like we should have known. And it's so funny to think that she knew that it wasn't real this whole time and she went along with it just like in Wanda Vision, she was just like, let's let's see where this goes. And that's why all of the comments make sense. She's like, oh, I didn't think you had it in you. It's like, oh, is this what's happening? Same thing with Rio. Rio knew it wasn't real. And she's like, oh, this is the row. And it's like they were just like seeing where this would go. I think it I didn't mind it being a Wanda Vision 2 point O and I love having the title card of Agatha all along being in his bedroom to show that it was Billy all along. I'm just curious of are we going to get more of this type of thing?

38:08 I feel like this was good enough like of the pop culture references and showing like they're inside a hex and stuff like that. Because the only thing that I, I don't worry about, but it's like if they're going to be doing the Tom King Vision storyline, it's very much Vision living a suburban life with his like robotic family and stuff like that that was made. And so it's like, are we going to do this other thing of like pretending everything is normal when it's really not? So I feel like this is enough. Like I don't want any more hexes. Yeah, we can't, you know, feel like we can't do this again. 1/3 time is too many. Right. I feel like it's going to lose its magic. Yeah, a little bit. I I liked the moment of if we think back to that episode when they were summoning the road for the first time, it was just Agatha doing her usual thing and wanting them to blast her so she could kill them.

38:59 Yes, in the in the flashback we find out the song. It's made by Nikki and Agatha. Just a thing, a mother and child, just to have fun. And it was different to the song. Well, they were like building it, right? They were like trying to figure it out. It started off sweet and then it became a con and then it just like for centuries became a con. And the fact that she uses this thing is she created with her child to become this wicked witch and this thing that people see her as is really sad. It's super sad. But finding out the witch's road wasn't real this whole time and it was just so Agatha con all of these witches was really cool.

39:44 I was like, that is so sad, so evil and also really fucking cool. Yeah, I just, she was like, Agatha's almost like courage of being like, whoa, here's some wild situation. Well, I'm going in to see what happens. You know, she's never like, this is too weird. I'm leaving. She's always all in. We saw it in one division. We see it in this. And so she's just always willing to go and explore and to see almost like, how can this benefit me? In some way, because that's what she's done for centuries, she's, she's benefited on other people's pain and death. And you know, maybe in a way, Death has always loved Agatha because Agatha has always given her the bodies. Well, I think that was Rio said something of like you just you were distracting me from the boy. So I'm curious if that's how it was even when she was with Nikki of like, she's killing these witches. She's giving like death these these bodies, these souls where she should be getting Nikki and the one time that she doesn't do the coven because Nikki was like, I don't want to do this anymore, Then that's when Rio claims Nikki. I'm sure like there was some time frame, but it was interesting that the moment that they don't do that, then Rio comes to claim her son.

41:04 How did you feel about the flashback? How did you feel about seeing Agatha and Nikki's relationship? I love the flashback. It did make me a little sad that, you know, she begs for more time with her son and then really just uses her. Not, I mean, of the, what, 3 scenes that we saw, we didn't see their whole life together, but she kind of uses him. She uses him as a tool to help herself. And so that's that selfish part of Agatha that we've seen all along of her just kind of wanting to love and wanting to help, but ultimately it has to benefit her in some way. And so we even saw that with her son, which I thought was a little sad. It was almost like a mother that had an addiction issue that like needed to do this, but obviously still absolutely loved her son.

41:53 Just in the end it was like, and I and I just keep thinking about when she was talking to Rio again in the same the the scene before the last trial. And she said something of like, why do you let people believe this stuff about you? Why do you let them believe that stuff about Nikki and Agatha says, because the truth is worse or something like that. And I was like, is it though? Like you, like you loved your son, like you had your son and they were supposed to be stillborn and they weren't and death let you be with them. And I was like, oh, maybe it's because of how she spent the time with him. Maybe it's because instead of cherishing every single moment with him and not killing all these witches, which you should have been in a coven and fostering, that you surrounded him with death and conning and being deceitful. And so I'm curious if that's what it is. Because she loved him, you know, like. And let's let's also think of Agatha. Agatha is always trying to protect herself. So if people believe that she gave up her son and all that stuff, it's actually hiding the truth and her true pain from everyone around her because, well, if you gave your son up, that means that you didn't care about him at all. But in reality, he died and she loved him too much, right? You know, Or so much I should say that it hurts to say that he was just taken away from her.

43:13 The scenes of her in childbirth and when she sees Rio. Oh, like, I, I do not, I, I don't think I could watch that episode again because it was just so incredibly sad, so well acted, so well executed. And then the scene with when Rio comes and claims Nicholas Scratch finding out that like his name, which is different in the comics of why his name is Nicholas Scratch. But in this I loved that his name is Nicholas Scratch because she didn't use a spell. She didn't use an incantation. She made him from scratch and that's who he is. She made him herself, which is just beautiful in its own right. And it kind of goes back to Wanda, right? And it's Wanda made her children. They're, that's how women like, I think what is it Doctor Strange is like when he has that conversation with her? And she was like, yeah, they were made from magic. That's what every woman does.

44:07 And it's like, yes. Totally. Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it just in reality, it is magic. Right, right. And I loved that they that she used that as like, this is how my child came to be and that's who he is. And isn't it those so messed up though, that in both cases of Wanda and Agatha, they created these children from magic and in a very short amount of time they get taken away? So I don't know what is that saying? I I I almost wonder if there are witches out there who have created the magic of life but have been able to actually take care of that child throughout their life. Well if we look at our 2 instances, 1 kept an entire town captive and tried to live a fantastical life and the other one was killing witches. So no.

44:55 So maybe if you don't do those things, maybe right? Right. One of my biggest gripes with the finale is this is the carrot kind of thing that I was talking about, of them showing us Agatha's life prior through the centuries, showing or telling us that there's this like history and this intense thing that Rio and Agatha had. And when we see her approach her when she's giving birth to Nikki, obviously this is like past the relationship. Like this is like when the relationship ends. But part of it was kind of sad that we didn't get to see any of it. It was, again, almost like this show is so queer. The show is so, like, willing to show that. And then, like, I just wanted something. I don't know what, but I almost feel like, OK, you guys are saying this thing.

45:47 And all I saw was you guys fight and kind of flirt and sniff each other's hair. But like, I wanted to see, I don't know, maybe to see, like, they actually did really love each other, you know, like, we got glimpses. And I just wanted if we're doing a flashback like just show. Yeah. How did they meet? How did it even start? How does Death fall in love with a witch? What is that story? Like why? I mean, I guess I don't need like why is Agatha important or why is she so special? But I I do want that. Like what was the death and witch meet cute like? Yeah. Totally. I know. What was it? I mean, and I the interesting thing is, so maybe it's just because, you know, it's one of those things where Agatha just keeps stealing the power of witches and, you know, Rio's kind of like, we have to stop meeting like this, you know, and they kind of just hit it off that way. I mean, I guess she would have to see death constantly because, you know, she killed her entire original coven, right, during the Salem witch trials.

46:42 So I guess that's how they met. But why did they fall in love? Right. I mean, I think that's it, right? It's like I, I kind of want to just know just to know, because when else are we going to see them again, right? I love the little detail of the bell that Nicholas takes is the bell that she uses to summon the road. The scene of her going through the centuries of this is how she's been taking powers and killing all these covens. I mean, well, it was horrible. It was so fucking cool. I love a spinning montage of costume changes, baby. And then having her like her version of the ballad was just so cool. It was really cool to see like where it started and how it progressed. And then to get the ballad that we have. And then she created the legend of the witches. Rd. was just literally Agatha all along this entire time and I just can't stop thinking about when the road was finally like the actual Rd. came the Billy road and she picked up the sand and like looked at it.

47:41 I remember watching that and being like that's weird why is she acting that way and now knowing it was like this shit was not supposed to happen. No, not at all. I really think that this shows that witches need to do a little more research. These covens throughout hundreds of years, we're like, yeah, there's a witch's road. We got to go. Oh, look, this lady's going to help us. Never heard from any of the other witches that went down the road again. So, you know, I think this is a lesson for witch kind to do your research and not just trust the random witch that says, yeah, I'll show you. I'll show you the witch's road. Let's go. Anything on the flashback part of the episode before we move to like the final scenes? Just heartbreaking. Totally. I mean, and the fact that it was funny because as I was watching it, I thought, oh, you know, she's going to wake up to an empty, you know, bed. I mean, they were, they were on the forest floor. But she didn't, you know, we didn't see him, which I appreciated.

48:34 But, you know, the body of her beloved son, the time was finally up. So that was just heartbreaking. Right. And I think it's it's a good distinction for people to realize that like, yeah, obviously death, if it was an entity, doesn't take the bodies, right? It takes the soul, the essence, the person, right. And then ushers them to whatever afterlife they belong in. You know, I I do believe there was some conversation. Maybe it was a moon night where depending on like who you are and what you believe, that's like the afterlife and it just seems like death. Rio is more the usherer for that. Like she takes you into the green mist and then you either go to like the fields of Reed, the field of reeds or hell, or like whatever it might be. So it's interesting to see that.

49:20 One of my questions is, is, you know, Wanda created her children because she wanted that family, that very safe, suburban kind of American dream thing, right? That was her goal in this. What was Agatha's goal of creating Nicholas? And was it just to be a tool for her to get more power? And but she accidentally kind of fell in love with him and didn't think she would. I don't think she's that evil. You know, there's there's too many instances of again, our perception of who she is, what we're told she is things that we didn't see, but again told that she did. Granted, she did kill a lot of witches. I don't think she's that evil. I think she legitimately loved Nicholas scratch. She wouldn't have his hair in his lock in the lock it right this whole time be that it feeling guilty and grief. But I think she did love a child, and I think she wanted a child and maybe to have a good relationship that maybe her mother didn't show her, but she just didn't use the time in a super loving way, even though there was glimpses, right? They obviously loved each other, but it was like, maybe you should have like, taught them the craft or like, been in a community instead of just on the road, constantly having to fight to survive and to satiate your, I don't know, hunger for power. She's very self absorbed and for a child to look at their mother and say, gosh, do you think we could stop killing these witches?

50:47 I mean a a six year old's conscience is more powerful than a centuries old witch. And that that's what made me think of like a mother that kind of has like this addiction, right, Because she she tried to, you know, put it off, skirt the issue or just be like, oh, this is what we do. Like you have to do this to survive. And it's like, well, do you? Because I don't think Jen, she lived for how long? I don't think she's taking power. Same thing with Lilia. So it's like, I don't think you have to do this. But you know, the only coven she knew betrayed her and was going to kill her. So that's how she grew up. I did love that. He was like, use your purple mom. RIP. Yeah. Who?

51:27 It's, it's. I mean, it's it's sad to think. I mean, I guess he was never going to be. But who would Nicholas Scratch have been if he were able to live and if he learned the craft? Hopefully not like his comic book counterpart because he is a nasty interesting. Yeah. I mean, he's one of the reasons why in the comics, Agatha has been a ghost twice. And the first reason was because of Nicholas Scratch and the second reason is because of Wanda. So I'm glad that it's they didn't go that route of him being like super evil and like the Salem 7 wasn't his fault and everything. So ghost Agatha at the end. Gagatha. Let's say we were Gagatha. I What do you think about Agatha figuring out her ghostly abilities and being able to get her amulet put it on and sticking around with Billy to like help him find Tommy? I love it.

52:26 Yeah. I absolutely love it. I love these two coming together. There's, I think, a poetry here of Agatha finally getting to raise her son, you know? And it just so happens that it's Billy, right? And so this is someone that she can teach the craft to, that she can be there as a support system even though actively hurt, right. So she. Has no choice. Right, so she can't steal his powers. And so it's almost her reconciliation in this moment to to see that there is good and to try her hardest to be good. I think she'll always be Agatha. She'll always have an edge. She'll always maybe push a little too far, but this is her moment to be that good Agatha that we've seen in the comics.

53:08 The one that she's supposed to, right? And I think that she does. She's like free of the burden of what everybody thinks of her, what she's done. She has a chance to do something right. And I think that she ultimately is going to take that. Now going forward, what is she going to do? Like, I guess we'll see. Like, is she going to fully help Wiccan? Is there still going to be that internal battle? But I really, really, really loved the scene of Billy going back into the basement, closing the Witch's Road, putting the names of Sharon, Lilia and Alice on there, which whoever is going to get the house is going to be like, wow. Some crazy shit was going on in this basement and they're like, oh, but Maytag washer dryer.

53:53 That's nice. Look at the washer dryer. Is that GE? Does it play music when it's done drying? But I really like that scene and I'm glad that he didn't banish her because she looked legitimately like, Oh no, like this is it, this is going to end. Well, I mean, I think Billy also isn't a fool, right? And knows that he's very new to these powers. And to have Agatha there, especially in this sort of like can't touch me form is, is kind of the best thing to do, especially when looking for his brother. I think that she'll be able to help him tap into their connection as she did in the final trial. And so without her, he's kind of on a journey without a compass. You know his Google Maps is offline. I I'm really looking forward to it. I'm curious when we're going to see him next. I hope we don't have to wait three years to see them because it's been three years since Wanda vision, which is insane to think about.

54:52 But I just think that like if they're doing a young Avengers thing, I think a lot of the young Avengers aren't going to be young anymore. So it's like, are we doing like young adult Avengers like? Avengers Junior. Right, like semi Young Avengers. Is a very good point. Right. And so we don't have much time until Secret Wars. So I think the next step is seeing what happens with Vision and finding Tommy. If that's a Wiccan only show or happens in Vision, I'm curious. I wonder if it's going to be like a Boba Fett situation where it starts out the series is about Boba Fett, but then it ultimately just becomes the Mandalorian, you know, season 2.5. So it might be like the Vision show, but then it's also just wicking all along, you know, them kind of intertwining. I don't know, that would be interesting. But I agree, I would hate to wait so long. And I think The thing is, though, is that, you know, what is the balance of, you know, not just rushing something because it's popular versus taking so long that they age out and we're kind of losing that effect of the characters. When I think that's one of the testaments of this show is that it is the cheapest Marvel show they've ever done. It looks like one of the best Marvel shows. The practical effects like so I think that with care it can be great.

56:12 I'm just curious of like, yeah, where is it going to fit in the timeline with what's going on? Because it seems like they're very much trying to plan and like make sure things are like going to happen before like being like things are happening. Like look at Blade. It's been constantly in production hell for so long. So I'm really curious to see also like Jack Schaefer, give her give her the magic side or give her these characters to do in this team because I just we need these types of stories. This really shows that the MCU can be so unique and so insular, but also the grand like still play into the grander scheme of things. I just. Yeah, and I think that, you know, this show was for me, it felt like for, you know, the She's the Gays and The Days, but in reality it was for everyone.

57:01 But of course we have the opposite of the She's the Gays and the Thays saying it's the worst thing that's ever happened. So I think that. While it's like having some of the biggest numbers that they've ever had. Who asked for it? Most people, yeah. And so and and So what makes me a little nervous about sort of the Marvel machine, right, is they're obviously going to try and quell both audiences. But you know, what are they going to do as far as satiating both sides of it? You know, which way is it going to lean? And are we going to lose this magic side? And I hope we don't. Yeah, I hope we don't. We just have so many things that we need to see and I think it's set it up where there's still characters that I can't wait to see and where they go.

57:44 So like Wiccan and Agatha, Jen, her flying off, where's she going? I need to know more about that. Also, just like the scene, I love the just putting them kind of side by side with Wanda leaving with nothing and Jen leaving with the whole world ahead of her and being totally full with her power and everything. So it's just, it's just so good. Like them doing the 1/2 of like this is what happened in Wanda Vision. We're going to do a proper sequel in a spin off and it just paid off so well. Magical. I just, I want to say I, I, I might like it more than Wanda Vision. Interesting. It's just, I think I still need to process some because it's still pretty fresh in our minds, but I just, there's so many aspects of it where it speaks to me personally on things that I really like. So it's just like, also, it's just more gay. Yeah, that's true.

58:39 And I think that this one was also, we got to just be grounded in this other reality where in one division we kept coming out of it, right? We kept going out to see Agent Woo and everybody there and and Sword, and so we kept getting pulled out of the fantasy. We're in this one. We were kind of in the dark with everyone else the entire time and not necessarily knowing that it was just Billy's creation. Oh my God, we didn't even mention we kind of tiptoed. So before we go, I think we have to mention this because I this is going to be a huge struggle for Billy going forward. Is he killed those witches because he made the road. I mean, he didn't necessarily kill him, right? And I get that. I think she was like, sorry, I didn't mean to like kind of go sideways, but like, I was like, Oh my God, we didn't mention this.

59:24 Agatha was like, I was going to kill them right off the bat. So technically you saved one, right? But the fact that this 16 year old boy with all of this power, figuring out that he just made all of these people go into something that he did with his mind, which ultimately killed them, I think he's going to have a lot of struggles to go through it and a lot of like, what did I do? That scene with him and Agatha in his room where he's like piercing together, like I did this and I killed them is awful. And also Sharon out of all of them. Sharon did not survive a hex in being puppeted and then dealing with this stuff in Agatha. For how long to then die.

1:00:05 Let's say. With the son of the witch that did it. Let's say that she is happily gardening with her love. Again, she's with, not Mr. Hart, Mr. Davis again. And they can live just peacefully without witches bothering them. And I hope so. I hope so, it's just so sad. Yeah, it is really sad. Also, I have a big question. What happens with Boif? Oh yeah? Where did he go? Also, Senor Scratchy, where is he? Oh, where'd he go? Yeah, where'd Senor Scratchy go? They forgot that diva. Oh my God, she's so pretty. Bring her back. Yeah. And I'm also curious about the dark hold. There's some like those threads where I'm just. Like.

1:00:45 Yeah, it's like, how did she get the dark hold? I think we were all assuming it had to do with Nicholas Scratch, but like, again, maybe we'll just never get answers to these things. Is the rabbit the dark? Hold. I don't know. No 'cause Wanda had the dark hold. Oh, that's right. Yeah, all right. So anyway. There's always, there's always questions. There's always questions. But let us know what you thought. Comment below Send us Adm Also how do we look? They're like flat boring. Awful. You guys need to learn how to do makeup. Which we do, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe we'll dress up a little more. Maybe like Halloween, not just regularly.

1:01:27 Knows like every episode, new costume is what we're doing. It's like this has nothing to do with witches we're doing. It anyway what are we doing with these costumes after? But we'll wear them again. Just watching TV. Yeah, we'll do rewatches. We're gonna dance. I hope everybody had a beautiful Halloween. On to the next thing, but see you. We'll see you on the other side, folks. Bye.