‘Loki’ Season 2 Episode 5 Science/Fiction | Marvel

0:03 Hello and welcome to a Bite of. I am solo today, so this is going to be very interesting. We're not doing a normal intro like we usually do. But before I introduce our very special guest, a few housekeeping reminders on a mission to get 200 reviews. So make sure some stars are away if you haven't thrown them yet and then also subscribe to the podcast. Episode 6 of Loki is right around the corner, so if you want to finish and get that coverage, make sure you are subscribing OK? Very special guest. I had to like speed through that housekeeping because I'm very excited to talk about this episode. I'm very excited. Introduce Ron, who is the founder and editor in Chief of POC Culture. Hello.

0:44 Hi, Noah. Thanks for having me. Of course, I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on this because you have seen a month ago the first four episodes, so this is the first one where you're coming in fresh with the rest of us normal people. So I'm very excited. Yeah, I'm very excited. I mean it's it's I still watch them weekly. So it's a it's a fun experience. But obviously, yeah, I got a chance to screen the first four episodes I'll seems like forever ago and then I'm just sitting there waiting for the next thing to happen. So it's. I've had to wait a long time. Yeah, well, so we have one episode left. So before we get in, everything, spoiler alert. So everything from Loki, Season one, Season 2, the entire MCU, and anything else we want to bring up is going to be spoiled.

1:29 So if you have not watched it, go watch it come back. All right, let's take a look back of Loki Season 2, Episode 4. The heart of the TVA. Timely Tip toes into the TVA and meets his author Idol OB. The pair and Casey work on saving the temporal loom. Renslayer convinces Brad to join her and Miss Minute shows her sadistic side giving docs The Big Squeeze. Loki and Sylvie discuss what it means to be gods, and after a cup of cocoa, Timely, Timely's time to be brave is cut short. As he cuts to ribbons, time explodes. So Derek wrote this. So he I was like, you have to do your recap, 'cause he always does it.

2:11 So I had no idea what this said going into it. So already blame the tongue twister. Already blame Alrighty. So let's officially take a bite of Loki. Season 2, Episode 5 Science Fiction Directed by Justin Benson and Aaron Morehead Written by Eric Martin. All right. How have you felt about the season so far? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely enjoyed it. I think Loki was my favorite Disney Plus MCU series that has come out thus far anyway, and so it's kind of crazy to think that was our second series ever. And the first two, obviously One Division and Loki set a pretty high standard that some of the other shows haven't done quite a a good job of maintaining the quality. We won't talk too much about Secret Invasion I'm sure, but I've enjoyed the season for sure. I I like Loki.

3:02 And of course, how can I not be happy with MCU series that finally has Kihei Quan starring in a in a pretty big role? 100% agree. Also, I always forget that Loki was the 2nd show that we got from the MCU. That is insane. Yeah, it's crazy because they kicked off everything with such on such a positive high and we were all, you know, quarantined or in some form of like the pandemic feeling pretty bored and lonely. And I think those two series were so awesome to get us through that tough time. And I think everybody was very positive. And then obviously as you and I both know, since we kind of chat fairly regularly that the tenor has shifted considerably. And so it's almost like a weird full circle that we now have Season 2 of Loki.

3:47 When the tenor of the MCU has changed so much. It's insane that it's like one of the best MCU properties is currently happening. But then we keep hearing it's in shambles and it's like, but but this is happening. So which one is it? How did you feel about episode 5? So your initial reaction. Yeah. So one of the things that I think is pretty consistent in terms of how I feel about the MCU series in general, and I think a lot of people echo this online, is that I do think the series are too short. I don't like just having six episodes or even 8 episodes. I often think like I wish we had at least 10, if not 12 episodes to give these series time to breathe and the characters to develop more. You know, a lot of times you get these complaints of longer series like, oh, that was a filler episode. And we even get it with the six episode ones, frankly. But I like filler episodes.

4:35 I think. I don't think they're filler episodes. I think usually they have critical character development. I think there are important moments that allow the audience to really connect and fall in love with the characters. And in six episodes we don't get that as much, even if the episodes are longer like this was. Obviously I think the runtime was over 50 minutes, but I I like that. And so, although I I really did enjoy the episode, it was so full of things to chew on, I couldn't help but feeling a little bit like I wish we got this episode one episode earlier, or that we had like two or three more episodes coming, because obviously there's a major shift. Seems like we're heading towards something very important and critical, not just for the series, but for the MCU at large. But how are they going to deal with all of that it with one episode left is my concern.

5:22 Yeah, IA 100% agree. I feel like we got some of Loki's biggest character development in this one, but also the whole band of the TVA, right? And it's like, we got to finally be like, I've cared about these characters, but I really care about these characters and where they come from. And one of my biggest grievances almost so far with the multiverse is of course I'm going to root for the sacred timeline. Of course I'm going to root for our timeline. It's sad when others get pruned, but, like, they're kind of just telling us and I needed to see it. And so I'm glad we finally got it. But like you said, with the six episodes, so much has happened in these last two that whatever is going to happen in the sixth one is going to be insane. But then where?

6:09 Where are we going to go from there? And then how long do we have to wait? The strike is still happening. So what's going to happen? We have Echo coming. I don't know if this is going to really actually address what's happening in this, but I thought this episode was probably one of my favorites. I'm I'm going to have to wait till 6:00, but I think it was one of my favorites because of that character development and exposition that we got so well done. Yeah, definitely it it was really well done. It was well shot. I mean, the cinematography was excellent. I mean the scene where there's so many scenes that were just framed so nicely, like at the towards the end or maybe this is midway when OB and Loki are like sitting face to face trying to figure it out in their little lab situation. I thought that was really well shot. And then when Sylvia's in the record shop and you see the spinning and where's the camera spinning above her? It's just, I mean, it was gorgeous. So absolutely it was super well done. I really enjoyed it.

7:04 We'll see. We'll see what happens. I I'm, I think I'm at a point where I'm a little burned about being super enthusiastic about any episode until we get to the very end. Because frankly, even Secret Invasion, I really enjoyed like the first two episodes, I got to see those as a Screener, just those two. And I thought, oh man, that's a great start. Like I I could see where they're going. And then it almost felt like they just like, ejected, like they just gave up halfway through the series. They're like, yeah, we're good. We're not doing that. And I so obviously I was significantly disappointed. We'll see what happens with look at I, I think they'll land the plane, but we'll have to see how it goes. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's that's a good point. I think one of the consistent criticism so far with the MCU shows is it starts strong and then gets a little wobbly and then the payoff is like, OK, but but what does that actually mean?

7:52 Or like this was weird. I don't understand how this connected to this. So, but I do have to agree that Record Shop, it is so good. It did make me a little dizzy, but I thought it was really well done. I really like that one. So the opening scene of this episode with Natalie Holt's score, absolutely fantastic. We see Loki completely by himself after it explodes. He's all alone. And then he starts time slipping again, which I think is really interesting. It's almost like it just reverted him back to when he was time slipping. So I'm kind of curious if it's ever going to address why he's time slipping again, or was he always able to have that ability, it just wasn't until the TVA gave him that ability or awakened it.

8:35 Yeah, that's a really good question and I think they tried to address it from the perspective I really loved O BS whole questioning about like the science and the fiction and the how versus the why and all of that. It it was, to me, reminiscent. I don't know if you were a fan of Lost, but there was an episode Man of science, a man of faith. And I love that kind of dichotomy that Obi brought to this episode. But it is weird, right? Because if the ending of episode 4, when everything apparently just like falls apart and then so then where was Loki? Why is he We still don't really know why he's time slipping and what that what the implications are that of that are, you know? If he can control it, can he control it going forward? Like, is that a power now he has that he's turned into, like, I don't know, Doctor Who or something, like quantum life or something?

9:29 There's a lot of questions about the background that I don't know if they're gonna have time to cover. Yeah, I I have always said that Loki has the potential to be the MC US Doctor Who because I'm a huge Doctor Who fan but that's also just merged the comics. But yeah, I I I think it's gonna be interesting going forward to see. And in this episode we see that he's able to control it, which is really cool. But exactly what does that mean? And is that too overpowered? I think only time is going to tell, of course, literally. But this, the opening scene with everything spaghettifying was terrifying. I think now we're starting to finally feel like is it necessarily Kang doing it? I don't know, because the TVA was like, this is a fail safe. But I think like Kang and the TVA as a whole are terrifying. I think this episode really gave us a look at like, no, this isn't just dusting with Thanos where beings are going to go away, all realities are going to unravel. So I think it was good for us to finally see, like, this is what's going to happen if things aren't corrected. But again, it's all that thing of like free will. What is it?

10:37 Can I control it? Is it a good thing? So I'm excited to see if they're going to address that or if we're going to have to wait until Avengers King Dynasty for that actually to happen. Yeah, and how did you feel about the the emotional weight of the when we see like the spaghetti fighting? Because I was a little mixed on that. It was very reminiscent of, you know, the blip of the snap and you know, all the characters going to Ash and disappearing. It felt very similar. It was also reminiscent of Multiverse of Madness when we saw like. Reid Sorry. Other Reid gets like, spaghettified himself. And so there were I, I think it. I don't think it was intentionally referential, but it seemed kind of similar to that, which made me feel a little like, almost like, ah, we've kind of seen this sport before, and I don't know how much I care because to your point, we haven't.

11:29 How much do we care about these different universes and these different characters? Yeah. I I mean I do think it's interesting that if going forward the next big thing is going to be like these universes unraveling, right. It is reminiscent of what Thanos did because things are just going to go away now it's just on a more it's it's on a bigger scale. So it's like that morality clause of like do we care, should we care. We want these people to like, I don't know, our 616 to actually make it, but I don't know. I, I mean I had to kind of talked about on an earlier episode. It's like should they, I don't know, be like oh this actually took place in this universe.

12:11 So like, you know we should care about it because of this. Because in this episode we see some of our people on branch timelines and it was enough for me to care about those characters. But I don't know necessarily for those worlds. I know that might sound weird but I, I, I, I'm kind of with you. Like I almost need a little more. And I think without a face to it, without Kang being like I'm doing this, then I mean it. It is kind of just spaghetti almost. Yeah, it really makes you wonder about King's rule and all of this. Even of course, outside of all the, you know, off camera issues and all that going on, it's we're we're almost at the end of Season 2 and there's it's not clear at all like who the actual villain is. What's the villainous act that's happening? Beyond the repercussions of the season one finale, right? Like to this point, that's what we're dealing with. We're dealing with Sylvie's actions, the result of Kane, you know, being stabbed, and then all the different branch timelines being created.

13:11 That's what we're seeing here. But it's like, is there an actual villain here that's actually causing certain things? Is there a true plan? They keep saying well we have to stop Kane but. It's not clear what that means and so I think there are certain elements like this. This season, Eddie has been really good from a character perspective. The performances have been incredible. I love the tone and and the the visuals of it all, but I do think that from a story telling like a large art perspective, there's a lot of threads that are a little loose and I'm not sure they're going to be able to tie them again to the point with one episode left. Yeah, I do worry that it's whatever is going to happen in the season finale, we're going to have to wait a little bit to actually see how this is going to affect it, because even with some of the MCU shows, they've taken place at different points in time. So it's like we're getting stuff from the multiverse or different characters, but where are the repercussions from this big stuff that's happening with Ant Man or Loki? Why aren't we kind of seeing that connect almost? So I am curious to see you going forward, how they're going to do it or even, you know, there's that talk of, you know, maybe they won't use Kang and they'll just pivot somewhere else. I'm not for that.

14:26 Like I just either want them to recast because laying all this groundwork to then be like sorry, we're going to move it this way. I don't. I don't see them doing that. But I hope they don't just recast, you know, goo goo and Baatharah is right there. Totally, yeah. And we talked about that on On Socials I think earlier this week. It's like they can just say of of all the times that you can recast, it makes the most sense right now with this character. And they can wrap it up in a third season of Loki, or in the intro of some other show or film where it's just like it turns out, the actual mastermind. The mastermind behind that mastermind is Ravana, and she turns out to be a variant.

15:12 There's so many easy ways. I feel like they could do this and I agree with you. Like ultimately we know Kang Dynasty is supposed to be the next Avengers film. They would have to totally scrap that in order to to fully pivot. And I mean, on one hand we've seen it, right? Like Ultron is a major villain and he was disposed of in in one film, introduced and disposed. Now they can bring him back because of the nature of the character, but. I just feel like with Kang, it's just odd if they just dramatically dump it and shift to Doom or some of the other characters that I obviously they've had planned, but now they're going to expedite. It Seems odd, yeah. And I think it would be really odd to be like, Doom is the villain. Where's the Fantastic Four? You know what? I'm like he kind of it.

15:53 It'd be weird to introduce him way before the Fantastic Four. So I guess we'll see. But I mean, I think we're on the same boat of like just either recast or like, figure it out but don't pivot because that'd be a little odd. So in this episode, we get to see what our TVA pals actually were doing on the timeline, or at least a version of it, right, 'cause it's a branch timeline. So the first one I want to talk about, of course, is Casey. So Casey is in 1962, escaping Alcatraz. I didn't expect him to be a criminal that would be put in Alcatraz, but I love it. But I love the callback to episode one. I'm not sure if you caught it. When they're escaping with the two other people, he's like, oh, they're going to get you like a fish. Loki said that exactly to Casey in the first episode. And he's like, what's a fish?

16:44 So the callback. It's just so good. They're writing again. I love that. They just like kind of took that from the first episode. But what do you think about Casey just being somebody from Alcatraz and being like a kleptomaniac? Good call. I totally missed that reference. That's really cool. I I love that. It was definitely unexpected. It was funny. I think it was good to be able to see like the different characters in different times of like the like the different eras of time, right? Like the 60s or whatever it was at different times. It's fun to see that. I thought it was just good for comedic relief, right? Because he's just like trying to break out. And then I really love the scene where he's like, so we can just like go anywhere with this thing like.

17:28 And they totally thought he stole it, which obviously we were. We were led to to be misdirected that way. So I thought it was really amusing. I mean, I I don't this will be a larger theme. We could talk about it with the other characters. Like I think back to our point about like caring about the Branch universes. I think I would have felt more conflicted if all the characters were living their best life. Like, it was truly something where I was like, oh man, you got to leave them alone. This is what they've always wanted. But in fact, seems like none of the characters were living their best life except, you know, except maybe Hunter B-15. Like she was living a great life. But other than that, I don't know. It's a little bit of a mixed bag.

18:08 What did you think that that's really true? Because so Hunter B-15 who is in 2012 New York, NY, which we know what happens in 2012 in New York is a doctor. You know Doctor Willis, and it was great to see. But with Mobius, he's a a single dad with two kids. He's like a sales manager at a jet ski dealership, but like, they aren't really living their best lives. That's a good point. Like, he seems sad that his wife has gone, His kids, especially Kevin, is a jerk and like, won't listen to him half the time. So, yeah, that that's actually a really good point. I didn't, I didn't even actually think about that. Yeah, well.

18:49 First of all, many kids are jerks. So that's just true for me. All kids. All kids are jerks. Yeah, right. We know the meme, we know the meme. But I I think that one particularly was poignant, right? Because I know. I felt like there was a conflict in the writing there because they were trying to make it so that Loki would have the conflict of like, do we we should? Get them out of here. We should wake them up because their life kind of sucks. Like Mobius's life in the TVA is better than his life, you know in this branch timeline. So I feel like it was a reasonable writing to have him be conflicted. But then I think from the audience perspective it left us less conflicted because again, it made us feel like, yeah, Mobius's life kind of sad when he's when he ends up actually being recruited back to Obi's lab. I know he's not.

19:37 I can't remember. His name is not Obi in the thing but in the branch timeline, but. He was like trying to sell more Jet skis still. And I'm like, oh man, this is just a sad existence. Like, get him back to the TVA. He only cares about Jet skis. That's his only purpose. I mean, I I guess that is true, right? It's like, yeah, they showed that he had kids, which is sad. Not that he has kids, but like, OK, if that universe goes away, he doesn't have kids anymore. But. With oh, and even showing Obi, think his name is AD and and his branch timeline, he's literally having to hide books and put them on the shelves and then fake buy them because nobody wants to buy them. And it's like, OK, yeah, great, not living his best life. And then later on his wife leaves them because he's trying to save the multiverse, which if we're going to point out villains in the show so far, I'm going to say it's those booksellers because.

20:31 So it's so rude to be like get your books out of here and you get out of here. I'm like, he's just trying to sell his books. Come on, I would read it. I would. I love sci-fi and fantasy like give it to me. So with what do you think about the concept of do you think that Loki's time slipping has to do with a specific person or with him him controlling it? Like is it he had to believe in himself and like The Who is actually him or is it like OB/AD said, we need to get the the people together, you know, the pens and put them in a cup. Do you think it's more about like focusing on a person because he was time slipping to all of his friends and where they were at? Right.

21:17 And there was that whole point about the auras and and all that. What if Loki's time slipping is actually the fail safe? The TVA fail safe that we you know we see in the first episode in the opening scene because if you think about it it started when all the branch line timeline started right. So it starts in episode one of the season which is a result of the of the finale of season one right. So we all the branch line timelines are starting and I feel like it would it could make sense if once that happens there the fail whatever the fail safe is begins. And then they have a set number of time where they need to get it under control. And he I could see him being the key to that because even at the end of Episode 4, like why is he the one that remains you know pun unintended because he who remains but why is he the one who? Yeah, The Who who remains like I. There has to be something there and I feel like he clearly is the linchpin of all this, so maybe he is the fail safe and it.

22:14 It's an interesting thought too with the season finale from the first one of you know he Who remains was saying I planned everything, everything was me getting you to this point. So is the larger question he who remains or Kang or timely or whoever still pulling the strings behind the curtain or does the TVA just kind of select the best case scenario which is in then Loki? That's actually a really interesting thought. I didn't think about the fail safe being Loki because then we see the spaghettification of this, you know, everything. So that's actually a really good point. But I think it it also goes into the thing of everybody's talking about it right. And we're getting like the God of stories, which I think is an interesting concept to think about.

23:00 I'm not sure if ultimately like are we really going to put this guy on like 4th wall breaking narrative rewriting status because then what does that actually look like when it comes to big level threats? Like, can he just be like, Nope, just going to take this out of existence or go back. So I think it's an interesting thing to think about, but or it just might be a variation of that, right? Yeah, it's like Kevin from She Hulk, but on another level. I mean so like we're going to have what, three 4th wall breaking characters by the time we get to like King Dynasty, that's going to be they're just going to have their own side quest going on at. This point, they're going to jump out of the screen and they're going to like talk while the screen is behind them. It's going to be, I mean, I guess it could happen and it could be amusing, but yeah, I I.

23:45 I think to your point about like, is King still in control? I think it's really interesting because this whole episode was very like existential, right? And it was also like about purpose, like what is your purpose? And and I really like following Sylvia and Loki's conversation about being gods like they are gods. And here we see them actually have a God like conflict. Which is do I? Manipulate their lives, the lives of my friends, and awaken them away from this world because I want to right back to the selfishness that they taught me, because I want to do it at a God's whim. Do I ruin, threaten, ruining their lives or do I leave them be? And what's the God thing to do?

24:27 And then again, to your point, like who? Who's actually in control behind these gods? Like, is it king who's manipulating them to make these decisions? Or is it? Anybody you know? Is there a higher power that these gods are are answering to? I think it was we really needed this conversation from Silvia and Loki because we kind of had it. Was it in the first episode? It was almost like in the second season we had snippets of this conversation that Silvia and Loki were having and it's Silvia wanting to be like free will. It's done. Just don't worry about it. Stop trying to control everything. And then we finally get Loki's. You know, he's admitting that, like, I just want to do this because I want friends. Like I want my friends back.

25:10 Which is sad in itself, but it's a super interesting conversation to have because it's almost like, instead of like, what is glorious purpose, he's burdened with what is that glorious purpose and trying to figure that out. But I like that he he brought up, it was probably a lie, but he said like, no. Mobius said that the TVA was like, his purpose, and he loved it. I should give him that choice. But like how are you going to show somebody this, like fantastical thing and expect them not to choose that over selling jet skis or trying to break out of Alcatraz? Right. And what is choice like? And I think so we touched on that. She's like, we're you're going to expose them to something they can't Unsee.

25:51 And so is that really even like you said? Is that a choice? Or is it really just leaving them with no choice because you can't go back to like a blissful, ignorant, just existence? Once you get to that point. And so, yeah, I don't know, like, again, we're going to have one episode left. We talked about the God of stories. That's like a pretty big deal with a lot of reparations. And so it's certainly not going to be wrapped up because we, we all know the stories will continue. But to your point, like how long will we have to wait to truly see the implications of the season? That I'm anxious about that, Yeah, yeah, that's that's very true. One of the scenes in this particular, that the bar scene, Loki was literally like plucked from his people, raised by a conqueror and still was pushed aside this whole time. And now we finally find out years later that it's like he just wants a place to belong.

26:45 Because he tells Sylvie, like, where do I belong? And it's so devastating for this person that was trying to conquer the world and Avengers and then now led to this, for him to just be like, I just want somebody to like me and like them to like me, like that's all I want. And it's so simple, but it's super effective I think, with the character like Loki. Yeah, and those are the moments that make this series special, right? Because not only like, that moment is so intimate, and I think so was the Key Lime Pie moment with Mobius and Loki. And I think that this episode, more than any others and any other film, MCU film or anything that we see, it's those intimate moments, those character moments that the quiet moments. That we get that I think help us really fall in love with the character and the story that we don't get.

27:30 A lot of my often when I talk about people talk about like the post credit singers all the time and they're disappointed because of this and it didn't none of this happen. But the best one, ultimately one of the best ones at least, is The Avengers. One where they're all just eating trauma. Right. And they're hanging out. It's so true. It doesn't mean anything for the future films, but it kind of means everything for the characters and the the the what they mean to each other. And I think we this series does a great job of leveraging those moments. Yeah, the one of the things that I was really hoping for was, you know, then to make make us care a lot more. And I think that we did initially care. But even like, hearing Sylvie talk about, I just want to survive, like, what's wrong with wanting something?

28:13 Like, I made my choice. You're making your choice. And I think that just adds another layer to her because she was frustrating me, I'm gonna admit a little bit in the series because it was every time he would go to her, like, can you help me? Like, you kind of inadvertently caused this. Can you help me? She's like, no, I'm good. I'm just going to go do the minimum wage grind. I'm fine. And it's like, can you just help him for the love of God. But then we had to get the scene with the record shop and her friend just completely turning into spaghetti and her saying, OK, things are a little worse than I initially thought, but we needed stuff like that. We needed these characters to move forward in that way. I am kind of scared for the finale. Like, I feel like because we got these nice moments, is that typical like show thing right?

28:57 Where they're. I think The Walking Dead did it best where it was like this character got an episode and then you knew they were going to die coming up in like the season finale. So I'm like, worried about all of them because now we know too much about them. Oh, man, The Walking Dead. That's a great reference. Yeah, because what's funny was I was going to ask you, do you think, Sylvie? Is going to make it like is is Sylvie going to make it past this season and it's only going to exist in the larger MCU and and and other characters because if there are two leads and if there's a second lead in this show, it's got to be Sylvie, right? And their relationship and dynamic hasn't been as strong and as quite as interesting as season one I would say.

29:38 But what do you think? Do you think there will be more Sylvie Stories or to your point, are we are they telegraphing a a character death? Yeah. I mean, I think for it to be effective, they definitely need to like either kill off, kill off or prune or whatever. Silvia or Mobius, because those are really the characters that, since the first one we've grown attached to. I hope there's more Sylvia. I do think there's a place for her somewhere. I like the the amalgamation of actually making her almost like the MC US Enchantress even that's kind of like what her character is based on. So I hope going forward she survives because Loki does love her and I don't want him turning full villain again because I feel like he's just not going to handle it well if she actually, you know, bites it for real. But I do hope she does, you know, make it outgoing forward. But on that note, I do have to ask, because this is something that Derek and I talk about One more he talks about is what do you are you for a possible romantic relationship with Mobius and Loki?

30:42 Or you're like no, they strictly have to be like best buds. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think that's where you were going. For some reason, I thought you were going to ask me about Mobius and Sylvie. I don't know why that's fascinating. Well, I certainly. I think we could that that wouldn't make sense. They could totally. I think it's so funny because somebody when I. Gave my reactions on socials about Loki and it's like is there is there any like gay relationships in in in the season somebody asked me and I was like, unfortunately I don't, I don't see any of that. But hey, that could be a a pivot that works because I was actually going to say yeah, like does does Loki Leslie. Like that relationship has not been quite as convincing or compelling to me this season.

31:30 He's like chasing after her. She like you said, she's like, no, I'm good. And then he it's like she gets dragged back in already like 2 episodes ago and then we're back to the reset and then she's dragged back-to-back in at the end of this episode. It's almost like a little repetitive from that perspective. And so I don't even know what her like. Mark is this season beyond. I just want to be at McDonald's. Yeah. Which is like, out of all the fast food chains, McDonald's. I don't know. What would have been better? What would have been better I don't know what's what's a good chain who has good food. You know I'm. I'm not I I I like Wendy's. I think Wendy's is pretty good over McDonald's.

32:10 The French fries are better. Just going to put that out there. Oh, wow. I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I mean, I do like Wendy's. Yeah. Listen, it all comes down to who paid more money. So it's the that is true. Who's going to do the endorsement? The only reason why I ask that is because in this episode when Loki sees Mobius at his house and he's like, you know, fucking with the trash cans and like trying to get him to actually go where he wants him to go, he like, fixes his hair and everything. Like, he puts himself until he's like, he's like fixing it and fixing his coat. And I'm like, Sylvie hasn't looked at you, how she's looked at you in the first season. And I don't see you like fixing your hair and stuff whenever you're around Sylvie.

32:51 So I'm more and more at first. I wasn't like, on the whole Mobius and like Loki Train, but the more and more goes on, I'm like, that's actually kind of nice. Like he wanted to give him his wife's Jet Ski. I'm like, you know what? Even in this timeline, he still loves him. Yeah. Is that like the? Maybe that's the telegraphing? Like the life is gone and here's the jet ski I wanna give to you now is like the what? What's their couple name then? Lokius or Moki, I think. I think a couple people, we had posted about it last week and a couple of people are like Lokius and then Moki, Moki or something like that. So I'm not sure I like any of them. They all sound kind of like sickness, but I'm for like, whoever can think of a good one, let me know.

33:35 Yeah. Somebody respond to your like on social media with some good like couple names. Yeah, Let's get a definitive answer of what their shipping name is. Yes. So we didn't really talk about OB too much, your AD, whichever one we why is it just two? Why is it 2 initials and both? I think that's interesting. Yes, And we need to know there has to be some reason, right? Like I there's got to be something. Like we know OB is Orvoras AD Anderson, You know, I'm not sure what that would be. But so like out of everybody he went to except for Sylvie, he was the only one that was like, yeah, I believe you 100%.

34:15 Do you think it's because he's a sci-fi writer and he's been waiting for something like this to happen or do you think there's something more to OB? Like a lot of people have been theorizing for this season, like not necessarily fill in, but like the concept of horror. Boris is still so apparent. His shop looked exactly like his shop at the TVA. So it is. It's too coincidental. Yeah, I mean I've heard, definitely heard that theory. I think it would be fascinating. I'm here for it. Like somebody on on Twitter we won't call it the other thing. But on Twitter was talking about how like what if instead of you know recasting, canning into somebody else, it turned into they shifted to OBE as like the actual variant that is in control. I I don't think that would be as interesting to me if you turned out to be straight villain like you said. I do think what happens if.

35:09 He does play that role, though, in the story because like you said, his existence is really like, keep everything working, right? Like, he's been there the longest, right? He's been there forever, preceding even, like Mobius remembering the time that he met him right at the TVA, right? And so we know that he's been there for so long. It means so much. And he literally wrote the book. And so, like, it's weird to think that he would just be OK with everything unraveling. And of course, Kihei Quan is like, so just like jovial about everything and so is OVAD. But I I could see, I would love this twist if at the end it turns out like he's not happy with this, all of this. He's been manipulating Loki to learn how to master his time shifting because that's what's needed to save the the savior timeline.

35:58 You know, it. It turns out to be this like. Almost like the reverse of The Wizard of Oz, right where it's like he seems like this goofy, silly, funny guy, but actually he's the mastermind behind making sure maybe he's a spell safe. He's the one to make sure that everything doesn't fall apart. I like that a lot. I I think, you know, a part of me is like, I don't want him to not just be in the season, I want him to continue somewhere. And if that means, like, he needs to have either more a sinister or a different purpose in this, I'm totally fine with it. But it it's just it's so interesting that it seems like his memory has lasted longer than most of the people at the TVA.

36:40 There's too many parallels. And then also like, are we seeing the birth of the TVA with this episode? Because the shop looked exactly the same. He got the book again the last episode. He said that Victor timely and him wrote the book together and we know where he ends up in the end of this episode. It's just I'm, I'm still trying to like figure out what exactly the loop is. But it all does seem to connect in some sort of way. So I'm hoping we get like some montage at the end of this to be like this is how A connects to C and vice versa. Yeah, I love the loop idea, right? Because you know, they're they're playing so much with time.

37:20 They've been jumping back and forth in different eras, different timelines, different universes. There's got to be a loop here that we didn't see, right? Like almost like AM Night Shyamalan type of like, oh surprise, like where the the timeline you thought they were in is not the timeline they're actually in. And like you said, it turns out they went in the past and these actions, like Loki's actions, resulted in the creation of the TVA. And the book thing is interesting too, right? Because it totally parallels what we saw happen to Victor. Timely, right? Ravana drops the book off to a young Kang and that results in him being able to grow up and turn into whatever, leading him to be Kang later. These books, these Bibles are so critical to the story and so Loki delivered the TVA Bible to OB and allows him to create the TVA, make the cycle, make sense.

38:11 And I love that he was able to create like Mach one of the 10 pad and it was just gigantic. Like as he's talking to Mobius and Loki, he's just trying to like press all the buttons and everything. It was just amazing. But it is interesting that he also like, he does have a PhD, so it makes sense that he's able to understand this stuff. But like, you know, he said it took 19 months, his wife left him. And I'm like, you're picking up this stuff so easily and so fast and also nineteen months to create like a time opening device. Like it's just it's so fishy to me. There's too many things that I'm like, why are you guys pointing to this? Why were you pointing to Key Lime Pie so much? Why?

38:53 Like, I just, I really need to know, right? It's just an excitement of like, I hope all of this is tied up in the end, but I mean OB I I hope he continues on through this and then past the series I I need more. Yeah. It would be such a waste to not fully leverage the character. And before we move on, one point I do want to make, and I wish to play with this a little more is like this episode was real serious. I was like real like, you know, dramatic. I actually would have wanted a little bit of cause OB reminded me of Doc Brown and you know and Back to the Future and when you know Marty goes back in time and he has to find Doc Brown. And be like, hey, you actually create in the future. You created this, right? And I feel like that's what we're leading to right here. Where you and I are talking about is like, hey, old Doc, like back in time, not old, back in time, younger Doc Brown, you create this.

39:41 So let me give you this thing so you can replicate it. And I felt like we had that in this episode. And so I saw like the Mardi Loki parallels and the Doc Brown OBAD parallels, and I wish I wish it would have been a little more fun. From that perspective, it opened very seriously. I think the only, like, fun part that we got was for some reason Loki mimicking the wacky, inflatable, flammling armed tube man behind him when he was time slipping that. Was a brief moment, it was. Really funny. Yeah. They're like, we have to make you laugh at least once in this episode, but that's that's very true. I actually like that parallel a lot. It's like the, I think in one of the episodes they were like, what came first? Like the chicken or the egg, And I'm curious if we're ever going to get that.

40:25 And I feel like as the series has gone on, yeah, we got the time travel rules in end game and it's like you have to put them back in the exact spot because then nothing's going to happen. This show has played with time in almost every type of time travel way that it's. I have no idea how they're going to like wrap it up or exactly what that means. So like at the end of this episode, everybody is like dusting it. It's looks very much like Iron Man seeing Peter Parker dust on Titan. And the parallels are right there. But so he time slips back to before everybody gets spaghettified, and then he controls it more and time slips, do you think to when Victor timely turned to spaghetti or when Mobius first went out?

41:12 Because I'm not exactly sure, like which one it possibly could be. Yeah, you're right. I I don't know. I my, my first instinct was timely right before timely. Because that's where they messed up, right? They thought this was going to work and they messed up. But it's almost like that's the the problem with time slipping or time travel stories is like, if he can control it, it really doesn't matter. He can go to both of them, right? Or he could go to however many moments he wants to until the what he wants works. So I'm not sure about the it'll be hard to determine the dramatic tension. But again, maybe that's not the point of it. Maybe it will be fairly easily wrapped up because he'll go back to the proper time and then we'll realize like that's not what was important because there's something else behind the scenes. What do you think?

41:55 So if if he does say, it's back to timely, right? I had said in the last episode that I thought it was the hot Coco scene was interesting. I'm. I'm still not too sure what it means and maybe we'll see what it actually means. But the fact that this, this confidence man, right all of a sudden was like, it has to be me. I'm going to be brave now out of nowhere, if Loki tries to take that away from him. Like what? How? How would they fix it from exploding, right? Because I don't think he necessarily has anything else. Like would he be able to go out there without a suit? Like, do you have any theories of like if it is Victor timely how he inevitably fixes it or does he keep just trying and trying again? Oh man, yeah, again, the crutch being that he even because at that moment the radiation became too much, that was the idea, right.

42:48 And that's that's why Timely, whatever happened to him So actually Loki can take the machine from that moment, then go back in time again until when the radiation wasn't that bad and then like just go out himself or whatever, like you said. So there's so many ways they can use this crutch, which is the problem with time travel. I think it'll be interesting to see to your point. If Timely then gets supplanted and Loki saves the day, is that his villain turn? You know, me is Timely, resentful of, like this was my moment and I could have done it. And that makes him, you know, swear vengeance upon Loki. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. What do you what do you think? I like that theory of Loki on taking it from timely but then going back to like a safer point in time and using that device and then fixing it.

43:32 But you know, I I what is the finale supposed to be like over 50 minutes? So I feel like that's like a super quick fix. I'm curious to see what it actually is, because my feeling is that he might we might get like a small thing of him. Trying multiple times and then not working and then us showing like how his time slipping. Actually like, is there limitations? How far back can he actually go? Because he says that he can rewrite the story. That's one of the last things that he says before he time slips. So what part of the story is he saying that he's going to rewrite? Is it just the TVA or is it the whole thing back to Sylvie's choice? So I think it can really go either way.

44:14 I'm more of a fan of The Lost. Time travel rules. See, look or Boris, we're going right back to loss when you mentioned it. I like the the thing of like what was supposed to happen always happen no matter what. So I'm curious if all of this was supposed to happen in a certain way, but how that ties back to Kang. And if the the king, the prime king is who he is, is that Victor Timey or is it somebody else? I'm very excited to see. Who that possibly could be, Yeah, same. And I really do think that the saving the timeline is not going to be the point of the story. I feel like it will be wrapped up fairly quick and then we're going to see that it's actually been something else going on. I hope. I don't know. We'll see. Are you bro, letting the branches go where they need to go or like, streamlining it in a certain way? Yeah, it seems like I'm pro letting it go because it seems like that's the whole point of the Multiverse. Like if you keep like unmultiying the multiverses and every, it's like, what was the point of this phase? You know, it's supposed to be the multiversal era. And so I feel like we need, but at the end of the day, even if they think they pruned everything that needs to be pruned and we get back to the sacred timeline. Even in comics, we see this like, oh, but there was somebody who was able to escape from this timeline before it was pruned and came into, like, there's so many possibilities still. Yeah, that's that's very true.

45:27 I'm. I've been kind of conflicted with, you know, because they opened it up with being like the timelines are what's pirates? The TV. VA and the TVA is what keeps it in check. So I'm if the TVA didn't exist, would the multiverses actually exist or would it be fine? Like why do we need the TVA to exist to have these multiverses? Unless it's just this is just the device we're going to use to introduce the big bad. So I'm very curious to see like if it's left without ATVA, if everything's fine, it'll be a bunch of Kangs, but like that's fine. We have King Dynasty coming up, so wrapping up. For you, for this series to be a complete knockout, what's like something that you want it to like address or lead to after the finale, Yeah, I, well, I probably had a different answer. But after this conversation I would say is everything we talked about with OBAD, it's like I want to see that turn now.

46:18 I want him to be the mastermind of it all and that he goes on to have a larger role in the MCU. That would be the Grand Slam ending for me. I agree. I agree. I hope the thing that. Leading to it is that we kind of get a clear answer of like where the multiverse saga is going. Not saying that we don't know, but like we kind of don't know, You know what I mean? And I feel like this show has a huge weight on its shoulders to introduce that. So I'm, I hope it knocks out out of the park on that that front. Like, I want to be like, OK, this is what's going to be happening, because it's leading right into the marvels. I'm very curious to see like why they scheduled it that way. Yeah.

46:59 Yeah. I mean, I agree. I mean, the Marvels have to have some kind of long term impact that I assume is the reason they didn't want to move it off of the November date and into 2024 because then it's just going to hold everything else up. I'm not sure. I'm a little skeptical that this will lead into the Marvels, but I guess we'll see. Only time will tell. Thank you so much for coming on. You know, I'm happy that you were. I was able to convince you of the OB thing because I've been like on that train and everybody's like, no. And I'm like, but like he's so important he needs to continue. And even if it that's in a, you know, a malicious way of some sort, yes, I'm here for it.

47:40 Next week we got the finale. I'm very excited to see how that turns out. Ron. Thank you so much for coming out. Please plug your stuff. Tell people where to find you, what you have coming up, what you have going on. Well, thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun. I think we chat pretty regularly anyway, but it's fun to do it in this format. So yeah, thanks for having me. Sorry Derek, that you weren't here. You were missed. Hopefully it's good to Yeah, hopefully I'll be back and we can all do it together. But definitely looking forward to the finale. You can find all my work on socials, including Twitter, Instagram, YouTube threads, so many different things now that I can't even check that often. It's all at POC culture, all one word POC culture. And of course all my work is housed at pocculture.com. Hope you can check it out.

48:31 The Marvels is coming out next week. The embargo lifts on Tuesday night where they're going to have the premiere. I'm not going to the premiere, but I will get a chance to see it in advance, so my thoughts will be all on the socials on Tuesday night, so check that out. Oh, that's super awesome. I was going to ask you, I was like, are you going to be able to see it early? So I'm, I always trust your judgement on things. Definitely follow Ron on what he's doing because he has all the exclusives and he gets to see things early. You will too. Your time is coming. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for listening to a bite of artwork and editing by our own Noah. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Abite of Pod and on Facebook at Abite Of.

49:16 If you have any questions, recommendations or just want to say hi, you can contact us on abiteofpod.com. Please be sure to subscribe, rate and review to spread the word. See you next time on Abite of Bye.