'Queer' Movie Review

0:00 Hey everyone, and welcome to a bite of we're we're tripping balls talking about queer. I'm Derek. That's Noah. Let's get into this wild and wacky movie. OK, how it That was a very unconventional intro for a very unconventional movie. There you go. See, Noah always knows what I'm talking about. I'm I hope I do. I always strive to queer. We're talking about queer.

0:41 I think we would be not our podcast if we didn't talk about a movie with Daniel Craig and queer. You know, both of those things together, I think really fit what this podcast is all about. I agree. A. 100%. Self loathing addiction, you know. That's that's us. Whoa. Well, the last episode we cried a whole bunch. This episode, I don't think they'll be any tears. You don't know. Oh, let's see what happens at the end of this. That's. True. Are we tripping on whatever it was? Balls. Balls. Yeah, you said. What they What was it called in the movie? Queer. No, the drug. It's ayahuasca.

1:21 Ayahuasca. Yeah, but they called it something else. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Hey, Thank you. See, he knows. He knows, anyway. Make sure you're following us. All the socials, we have a Patreon, we have a Discord. All of those amazing things helps keep the lights and the shows and us going. So talk to us. We need affirmations and confirmations that we're doing a good job, please. So spoilers ahead. For Queer. So let us officially take a bite of Queer, written by Justin Kuritsky's and directed by Luca Guadagnino. Based on the book by William S Burroughs ex. Pat Lee spends his days in Mexico imbibing while fawning over young men at the local bars. He is entranced by a new handsome face in Eugene and begins to have an affair with him, all while balancing the question is he queer?

2:14 Also drugs I. Mean. Yeah, that sums it up, right. Before we get into our like review, you actually had a very cool experience with this movie. Some would say a queer experience. Queer. Yeah, 824 invited me to a screening and slashed a conversation reception with Daniel Craig and the writer. It was great. It was fun. I mean, a bucket list item checked. I got to meet him, hug him, chat with him for like 3:00-ish minutes. I still don't understand the hug part. Where did that come from? He's just that. Kind of guy he's. Just that kind of guy. He really is like, I mean, of course I wasn't the only one he hugged. I saw, he hugged other people.

2:54 But he's just fantastic. And seeing a movie like this and then meeting the person that played Lee, it's you get to appreciate acting a little more because he is nothing like obviously this character into just to see him embody that and then to see who he is as a person and in like an environment where you're drinking and hanging out was was an interesting way to, I guess, watch this film. But yeah, that was my fun little experience. It's so cool. I mean, as we've spoken about before, Noah is a huge James Bond fan. So the fact that you hugged a James Bond is just stellar in my book. I try not to think about it too much because it's like, yeah, I did, Yeah, whatever.

3:38 The movie The way to lead us. On I did. Dot dot dot. So what did you think about the movie? It was completely not what I expected, right? So just in short, this was a it's based on a book by William S Burrows that was written in the 50s, actually published in the 80s and now made into a movie in 2024. And so I knew I was going to be dealing with some like deep seated, you know, feelings on what it meant to be queer in that time. But the way it was executed and some of the other themes that were kind of slipped into this left me just completely discombobulated, just trying to figure out like, what was it that they were trying to say with this film?

4:25 And I'm still not sure. I mean, I so I feel like people might go into this movie with different expectations of what this movie is trying to talk about. Because this movie, even though it is about the queer experience, especially of the era, you know, this is the McCarthy era, this is the Lavender Scare era, right? It's like people were getting fired and barred and everything just for being queer and thrown in jail. So it does come from a different time and this movie feels that way. I think that's one of the things that I liked the most about it, is that it felt like a movie of a different era, but still relatable in some way. It felt like a movie from a different era. It felt like the story itself was from a different era, but the execution of telling the story was from an era we haven't experienced yet, right? Does that make sense?

5:10 If you like when we said like we're tripping balls while watch like on the episode, that's what you feel like in this. Because I mean within this grander scheme of him experiencing what it means to be queer and escaping to Mexico to survive for many reasons, he's also addicted to opiates. Well, and I think that's what this movie is about, addiction in desire and also literal addiction. And when you read a William S Burroughs book or when you go to one of his stories, you don't go for a happy time, right? You go for self loathing. You go for I'm not queer, but I will partake in all of those activities, but I'm not effeminate in any way. And so you have this character of Lee, who is very much William S Burroughs, right?

5:55 This it's it's a well known fact that this is like an pseudo autobiographical story and that's what how he writes his stories. And it's also not finished. This book was never finished. It was torn up, not torn apart literally, but it was dissected and moved and parts of it were moved into junkie. So it's like it's a mishmash, right. So knowing that it wasn't finished, I, I wasn't expecting a full, complete story, but it was a very interesting look at male desire and addiction, and I didn't hate it. I feel like it's not going to be an accessible movie, and that's fair. And I'm very curious of what other generations think about this queer experience in this movie.

6:39 I think, but you know, I think that I kind of went into it thinking like, oh, it's going to be a tearjerker. I'm going to feel like so moved by this. I was moved, but not in that direction emotionally. It's not, yeah. It's not as a sad movie that you would expect a queer movie to be. Yeah, I think that's what media has trained us, right? It's like it's not a funny looking gay movie so it has to be sad. Yeah, yeah. I, I kept, I kept wondering, like, would this have worked if it was a straight relationship at the center of it? And I don't think it would have, right, Because it adds a whole other layer of maybe hiding who you really are and what you're experiencing and how you're feeling.

7:28 But it, it's almost like it turns the movie, right? It starts off feeling like this movie is about being queer in the 50s, but then by the end of it, it almost feels like addiction. It's really more about addiction and what you're willing to go through to, you know, quell those desires. Right, right. Yeah. It, it, it's interesting, I think, looking at these characters, right. We have, we have Eugene and Lee, and while they're the same, they're also very different. It's like Eugene likes to be the object of desire and lust, but doesn't actually like to be that thing or be in that community that he is. He's very conflicted with it. And the same thing with Lee.

8:09 Lee is very much like that, right? He he tries to embody the opposite of what a queer person, especially of that time would be. He doesn't like to be associated as effeminate, right? He holds, he carries a gun for no reason. He just carries it because I'm a man. He walks around with this like swagger. He's drunk. He's open with his addiction, and it's like, gross and everybody knows it. But he wants to be more known for that, even though everybody knows. Yeah, but he's a dirty little man, Yes. Totally. And and there's there is a group of guys, the Green Lantern guys, right, That's kind of the club where they go to they're superheroes and which is very cool. You see, that's another element of this movie that you weren't expecting was the superhero story with that big, you know, beautiful brooch that he's wearing.

8:57 But they kind of represent the free queer men who are completely themselves. And it feels like, I actually felt like the character of Lee is stuck in between them and Eugene, right? Whereas Eugene is apparently not willing to say that he's queer. Lee is queer, but he's not as open about it as the Green Lantern guys, Omar, you know? And so that's an interesting place to be stuck in between and kind of how he can float between those communities to get what he wants basically. And also be extremely addicted. Yeah. To drugs, yeah. And I think it's an interesting story to intertwine these two people and have the, I guess, the driving force for the movie be, oh, we're going to look for this experimental drug that will hopefully bring us closer together.

9:49 And that's on Lee's part, right? I think Eugene was just going along with it because we find out later he went down to South America with a a captain, right. So he's very much still. He's the Uroboros that we saw in this movie. It's just they're all destined to repeat each other because they're not trying to move forward in any way. They're just staying where they are. I on the note of this movie itself, I just thought it was so beautiful. I thought they use, I believe Luca used used the same writer as Challengers, same cinematographer, same composer, Trenton Reinsner and Atticus Ross. But night and day where I did Challengers feels like it's for like everybody can be there.

10:31 This one again is maybe not for everybody, but I like that he used the same people to make it. It's it's quite interesting the use of miniatures in this movie. At first I didn't notice and I I've seen it twice and I'm like, oh, those are miniatures. They're so well done. I And that's what's, again, so interesting about this movie is that it has these details in it that I think that if you're willing to give yourself over to them, you will appreciate the experience, the use of miniatures of those apartment complexes, those the planes taking off even. So I'm kind of trying to figure out how I feel about the music that was used in this, right?

11:15 The music in this, as you mentioned, was done by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross and they use music from all time periods. And I don't know, did it take you out of being in the 50s or did you feel like it grounded the film? No, I I feel like this movie, if you didn't get told it was in the 50s, you might not be able to place it right. I feel like it could be anywhere from like the 70s downward, right? And also, even though it's in Mexico, it's not Mexico. Like that's not that's not a typical like I believe the the place where we first see with all the purple like leaves falling.

11:56 That's called like Amsterdam Ave. like in the book of queer. You can tell that we all miss Burrows. Like didn't really know much about Mexico. And so he's just like putting all these things together. And I feel like that translated in this and with the music, they're very much using like outsiders. We have Sinead O Connor, we have Prince, we have Kurt Cobain, Omar Apollo. We have these people that are known in music, but not the typical musicians, right? So I'd liked that. I liked that through line of using kind of the outsiders right in a movie about queer people. Yeah, I I like the way that you're explaining it 'cause I guess I didn't think that deeply about it. I was just trying to like, well, yeah, I was trying to like live in this reality of the 50s, but with these modern singers. I was like, oh, does it work?

12:54 Does it not work? Is it fighting? You know what they're trying to say. But I think that you, you make a good point there for sure. But I don't know, for at the end of the movie I was like, gosh, sometimes it took me out of it. I think that's fair. I think this movie is very much like Luca being self indulgent and the movie itself is self indulgent. In a movie about addiction. If it's not that way, it just doesn't make sense, right? And I feel like with Daniel Craig's performance, he makes you feel uncomfortable. He makes you feel like this isn't right, even though he's not doing anything aside from peeing where he's not supposed to pee. So I feel, I said, I feel how many times right now and I feel, but I think there's a point and I think it's supposed to not make you comfortable.

13:45 Well, I think I think that's a good point, right? Because he is uncomfortable. He's uncomfortable for many reasons. And of course with his addiction, he's always looking for more. So he's always going to be on edge. And I also think just the world around him, how sort of fake some of the things look like those miniatures is, because the world doesn't matter to him, what matters to him. Is what he wants what he wants? Is his addiction, you know, and there are certain parts in the movie that I really liked of again, playing with reality. You know, there's a part where he's sitting at a bar and he kind of turns into the snow on the TV. There's a part where they're watching a movie together and while they're sitting side by side, it's almost like a phantom hand of his reaches over and strokes Eugene's face. And so it's these inner desires that he has of what he really wants versus what's actually happening. But I thought were really beautiful. And when you think about it a little more in the vein of addiction, it's almost like when his addictions are most strong is when he's having those sort of out of body moments, right? Whether it's a small hand or, I don't even know, meeting the naked torso of a woman in some disembodied reality like. Questioning if he's queer or not. Yeah, like it's, it's really interesting when you look at all these bits and pieces and how they fit together. This movie does an interesting

15:17 job of completely changing midway through and I would say the last act of the movie is absolutely not what the first act of the movie is. No, and that goes to Lucas credit of sticking with what this book happens in this book. It's just the the book is it. It's not a fun read and I feel like he read almost a different book than like what I read because I didn't feel that like, I don't know, lovey dovey fawning over Eugene like Lee did. I felt more like I need to have that thing and I want that thing. So it was it was a a curious experience to see. Oh, somebody else interpreted this a different way. But having that really that end of the movie be so heavy in the hallucinatoriness of it, did that work for you? I think it did because I.

16:11 Got real artsy. I got real artsy, but I was trying to, I, I saw it as so I think that we need to also get into a conversation about Lee and Eugene's relationship, right? Totally. And I would, I was getting very frustrated with Eugene because to me it felt like he was using and also leading Lee on. Right, he wants to be the object of lust, but like. But that's it, right? And so Lee actually, I believe, was falling in love with him because he represented this beauty that he needed and wanted and was addicted to. But Eugene played with him, right? And so he would play very much a cat and mouse game with him and and he would lead him into thinking that he also had those feelings and then at other times would fully push him away.

16:59 And so by the end of the movie, what happens when you are addicted to something and you want something so badly, but you can't, you can't get it anymore, You can't get that fill. And so that's what sort of leads Lee into this hallucinus hallucinatory. I don't think that's a word I made that up, but you can use it. Hallucinus that's that's completely made-up. Hallucin. Into this day's state of leaving reality. And confused, yes. There you go. Use use opposite words, right? OK, a little tiny spider just landed on my microphone. Anyway, no, I'm hallucinating. I can see it now.

17:40 Oh. My God. Anyway, moving on. It's fine. It's fine. And so it just because he cannot fulfill that desire, it just leads him into total madness. Yeah. And so I just think that that's where that finally comes from, because when we hear that story that Eugene has just gone off with some other cat, some other man to South America, Eugene's still doing Eugene right. He's getting the best from some older person being shown the world and is left Lee wanting that. Yeah. And you know, Lee as a character is really interesting because he does these things called routines and that's his monologues where he just keeps going. And like when somebody tries to leave, he like makes them stay, right.

18:24 And, and again, that's just who his character is. He, he wants you to, I don't know, he wants you to get, he wants you to give all your attention to him, even though you're not giving anything back. So he's again, self-centered, he's self indulgent. He's wanting to do this thing and just get it out. What did you think about their performances? I thought their performances were layered. AKA fine. Well, I don't think that there was a lot of dialogue in the movie, right? Yeah, I feel like there was a lot of these until the the end. I would say there's a lot of these sort of like monologues and soliloquies about just things, right? Not necessarily between two people. It's, it's an interesting thing to act in. I, I did attend a, a little press junket for this and Luca and Daniel were asked a question about when Lee does the, the routines and the monologues.

19:33 Drew's character Eugene has to act in that scene but not give anything back. And it is an interesting thing to experience because you are seeing this one sided nature of it. And Eugene, he he almost like if I must, if I must engage with this, if I must give more than what I want to give, fine. And that, that's the attitude he he gives off because you're initially thinking like, oh, he's this like beautiful thing. And like, he, he, he can be off putting and you know, oh, don't talk to me right now. But it's like, no, no, I don't think you can. Yeah, I think that they're both selfish, right?

20:15 In their own ways, right, They're completely selfish and and The thing is, is Eugene is selfish in the sense of just getting what he well, you know what? They're both getting what they want from the other person. It's just not the same thing, right? And because. They don't communicate well. Well, there's barely any communication. It's just Lee pontificating at Eugene and Eugene just taking it. Which does happen. On a metaphor. Can we? OK, well, I, I, I 100% agree. And I think, you know, part of me feels like if Daniel doesn't get at least some type of nomination, it that's sad because I don't think it's a brave performance. All of these people saying it's a brave and fearless performance I think is stupid.

21:02 And it's 2024. Like a straight person can act gay like and can kiss men. Well, right. Get over yourself. It's not really that much acting, no. It's not, it's just what is acting is the thing. It's like that's not anyway. But I do think that the nuances that he brings to the character is just really good. But did you think this movie was sexy or not sexy enough or just kind of sweaty and like. Well, it's very sweaty that I was going for that met. Like what? That suit that he's wearing where he's just constantly covered in sweat. Oh yeah. But you know, I thought the sexiest part actually was the scene with Omar Apollo.

21:48 Where he finds him in the bar, Yes. Yeah, that was the sexiest scene where they're kind of in this room full of people and they're leaning close to each other and Omar Apollo slips his hand up his leg and then they just have that tryst, you know, in the in the hourly hotel room or whatever. So that felt very sexy to me. That felt very hot and sexy and desire, and I think part of it is is that there was a mutual thing happening there. They both knew what they wanted exactly. Whereas for the rest of the film, it doesn't feel, I mean, it's mutual in a sense where I don't believe Lee is necessarily forcing himself on Eugene, but Eugene is kind of going through the steps to get what he wants. And so it feels more transactional rather than love. Right.

22:35 And whenever Lee breaches that contract by being a little too love hovery, then Eugene like pushes back and like or distances himself or doesn't talk to him or he's like, I have to work. But really, I'm going to go out with Mary later. What did you think? I I mean, I agree. I think the Omar Apollo 1 is probably the sexiest if we're going to do that full. Frontal, by the way. And especially, like, not especially that that's weird for me to say, but like, when Daniel Craig just, like, reached under, I was like, oh, yeah, they're going for it. Yeah. Yeah, he did a booty grab. Yeah, there's a lot of noises. I did not believe the scene when Eugene and Lee first hook up.

23:17 You know, he did ask if he smelled like vomit and he said no, so no. No, no, I just mean, I'm sorry, but like, anatomically where Daniel Craig has his head. Oh, right. Way too high. Yeah, and, well, he's not going. To actually do that. Well I'm just saying go a little lower. They didn't show anything so make it look more real. I yeah, I mean, I I do think they did a good job of portraying lust and just this, like, feverish need to expel it from your body. It still works.

23:58 And you know what I'm talking about. Where's that? Spider. Oh, it's gone. It disappeared. Dear Lord, Yeah, I don't know. Where it lives in my microphone. Sorry. OK, But yeah, so I mean, let's let's wrap it up here. I. Well, no wait. I also, I want to talk about just really quick, Jason Schwartzman's character who I think made the movie. There I did want more of him because he was just absolutely. Hilarious he was so. Funny, the scene specifically where he's talking about how the the Brazilian boy stole his boots and that was what he was most upset about. And he had his little He had his sandals. On he kept. Putting him up. Every like, I don't know what description of this character he read, but it was like, be a cat, right? He's like on window sills and he's like in, he's like pointing his feet and it's just so good.

24:51 He was like a human gayer version of the Cheshire Cat. Yes, 100%, which I also think I could play this role. I'm just saying you could. Thank you. You really could, right? Oh, fun fact, before we wrap this up, one thing I did learn from all the press and stuff like that is the ending scene. And I, I have to mention the same because I think it's absolutely beautiful and I have not seen something like this. We've seen many scenes where 2 characters in some way are intertwining with each other or becoming one or whatever. The scene where they take yahe where they take where they're tripping and they're literally melding into each other and like out and it's just this beautiful dance and they're dirty and it's sweaty and it's just, I couldn't, I was so excited to re watch that scene.

25:39 The entire theater, the the screening room that I was in was dead silent. Like I could just feel everybody being like, like this is something. I don't know what it is, but it's something. But I did find out that it wasn't dirt that they were in. It was a lot of ground coffee. And Daniel Craig said you can't absorb it through your skin. So they were like completely. Buzzed out. Holy smoke. And they were just in dirt the entire or in coffee grounds the whole time, which it makes sense, right? It's like, oh, it's not dirt. It's just going to, you know, make your skin look like it has dirt on it. But they were. Probably so jittery the rest of the day, like let's go, let's keep shooting this. Yeah, so all of the scenes with him being like withdrawn was just real jitters. Totally.

26:23 Wait, I you know, I will say that I thought the sweetest moment between Lee and Eugene. They don't deserve it. I'm just kidding. Was actually when Lee is going through withdrawals and he goes into the bed with Eugene and Eugene just puts his leg over his leg. That's yeah, it's so. Sweet. It's so sweet. And isn't that just that feeling of when you're newly in a relationship with someone and those little touches just mean so much to you? And that's what Lee had wanted. I mean, I think there's. Well, he didn't know he wanted. Right. And I think that there's the desire for sex, but there's also the desire for, you know, just emotion and connection.

27:07 And I think that in that moment, that's what he gets. And so then when we get into this epilogue, right after that whole scene in the jungle, we get we we see him experiencing that again. So in those final moments, I was just kind of curious, do you think that what is happening to Lee? Is Lee dying? I think it's, I mean, I he does die, but I think because this book isn't finished, they had to fill it in somehow. And I like the idea of seeing Lee. This is where you're going to end up because you didn't not fix yourself. Well, I guess fix yourself, right? And get over your addiction, get over yourself, be queer. And at the the final moments of when he's fading away and becomes rainbows, literal rainbows, he thinks back to that one moment.

28:00 And that's the one moment where Eugene was being selfless, where Lee was accepting of discomfort. And it's such a simple thing. It's like, oh, I didn't need to do the routines. I didn't need to be addicted to drugs. I didn't need all this. I just needed to accept this tiny little thing. I mean, that's, that's that's how I took it. Yeah, and, and if you think about it, it's so sad for Lee that he goes through his whole life, and maybe the one moment that he cherishes most is that touch with a man who's not even in his life anymore. And Eugene probably didn't even mean it for that way, but it processed that way for Lee. Because I think he says in the movie that he says something like, I've never been in love or something like that. And like, it's all just the proclivities of being queer and doing those things.

28:48 I like to think that Eugene did mean it like that, because I think that Eugene was queer. Even though he says while they're tripping, I'm not queer. I think he is queer, but he just can't. They're both queer. Yeah. Yeah. They just can't accept it, right? And I think that in that moment, he finally allows himself to have that connection, that true emotional connection with Lee. Yeah. And so. Well, too late. Yeah, and it's just sad to think that, you know, he just went on probably living his life that same exact way. I mean, it's a product of the time. Unfortunately, that's what society did. Society still does that. Yeah. I think Final thoughts.

29:30 Very much enjoyed it. I think it's one of my favorite movies of the year. And do I think it's the best made movie? No. Do I think it has do do I think it gets to a point? Not necessarily. I I I think it it just it does something. I don't know what it is, but I loved everything about it. Right. It's like, yeah, I like the story. I like the way it looked. I like the characters. I like the music, cinematography, absolutely stunning. But it's just like I, I, I. It didn't get anywhere, but I liked the ride. I think that's a very good point to make. And if you all go to watch this movie, you're there is you're not on a linear path necessarily that's leading to a beginning, a middle and an end. You're on a drug addict's journey, right? And so I think when you go into it with that lens on, you'll be like, OK, now I know what I'm experiencing. Yeah.

30:21 I just. I mean, I don't know if I could be in a movie theater with, like, people that it's like, not for them, which is fine. And like checking their phones or being actively antsy because that would, like, ruin the experience for me because I very much tried to absorb it into myself because I was just, like, mesmerized by the way the movie was made. So yeah, just, I would say, like, taper those expectations because it's not like Challengers. He had two movies come out this year, which wasn't supposed to happen, but it did. So I don't know. That's not what you think. Yeah, I'd be interested to know. I, I kind of had, I, I think I have like lukewarm feelings about it, but the more that we've talked about it, I think I'm feeling warmer.

31:05 I think when I I think, Oh my God, I need to stop saying that this episode. I believe. I concur. When I had saw it the first time, because I didn't see it with you, I have not stopped thinking about it. And I think I've mentioned it to you quite a few times and you've heard me playing Prince almost every day since because it also like reignited my love for Prince. But it's just one of those movies where it's like I'm thinking about it and I don't know what conclusion I'm trying to come to, but it's just I. Don't know. It's OK not to have a conclusion though, right? I think so. I think we need to be more OK with like a movie didn't go anywhere. It was just like this. Part it's art. Yeah, yeah.

31:47 Well, I, you know, Noah does this thing sometimes when he sees a movie before I do that, I also want to see. And he he'll just keep saying to me, I'm so interested to know what you're going to think about it. I want to know what you're going to think about it. I can't wait to see what you think about it. And I'm like what? What do you want to know? And so that's what I think about it. I finally know. And I'm just as confused as you are. All right, let us know what you thought. Yeah, we have like one more episode this year and then 2025. Oh man. Another Jenny Biggin. The next episode we're going to do vastly different from the last most episodes, Yeah, so. Crying to confuse to question mark.

32:28 See what happens next. All right, see you next. Time bye.