'Wicked: Part 1' Review | Best Musical Adaptation of All Time?

0:00 Just like green and pink, Noah and I go quite well together, and I believe that you and Abideov also go well together. So welcome to our episode on Wicked. Pause for dramatic effect. Play the big orchestral music like at the beginning of the movie. Oh my God, wicked. OK, we saw wicked, as I'm sure many of you have seen wicked. We are very excited to just sit down, parse through everything and just gush and talk about this. Side note, I did want to say, you know, we we saw it a little late because our little Kitty cat had surgery. And so we were dealing with that and many of you are very kind about just what we were going through and what the cat was going through and everything.

0:50 So I just wanted to like take a tiny little moment, say thank you. Thank you so much. Especially car and stuff. Long time listeners sent a very amazing cat decoration for Christmas and it's amazing. Yes, that somehow looked exactly like Ziggy. I'll put the the photos here. There. I just wonder, Karen and Steph, maybe comment below, are you just very good gift givers in general and we're just very lucky to receive a gift from you? I think so, right? They just must be very good gift givers. I think that's what it is, yeah. They're fantastic. Speaking of gifts, if you would like the gift of actually watching her episodes, YouTube and Spotify, that's where we're at.

1:32 That's where you can see these videos. We put stuff up on the screen. You can see our faces. It's amazing. So subscribe, do all those wonderful things, you know, be be the the wicked good witch and do those things. In some places, wicked is a slime slang term for very cool. Yeah, wicked, man. So when they go look at her, she's wicked. They're like, wow, she's so cool. Oh my God. All right, so I guess spoilers ahead. The musical's been out for 20 years. The book that it's based on has been out since 95. It's been 100 years since The Wizard of Oz. We will try our hardest to not go too far into Part 2. That's fair.

2:14 I think that's fair, right? Because even though it's been out for so long, people aren't fortunate enough to see the musical. I get it. You know, I don't want to spoil that for you. So just be warned. Spoilers ahead. You know, we don't want to be bad. Wicked. Yeah. All right, so you ready? Yes. Let us officially take a bite of Wicked Part 1, written by Winnie Holtzman and Dana Fox and directed by John M Chu. Born a Vera descent visage in a world of beige and pink, Alphaba has always been othered. On the first day of her younger sister Nessa Rose's tenure at Shiz University, Elphaba is sought out by Madame Marble and forced to room with the exceedingly popular Galinda. She soon realizes that the world she lives in is all an illusion, and to take a stand you must go above and beyond, even defy gravity.

3:11 So what did you think? Oh, general thought section. OK, that's a very loaded question, I feel like. Yeah. What did I think? Yeah, let me pull myself together, right? I think, you know, I, I think in this conversation before I get into like generally thoughts, right? I think there's something that might be interesting to talk about up top because I feel like with this movie, with it being as big as it is, there is some conversation on kind of just movie etiquette, right? And if you've had, like, an interesting experience in the theater, please, like, comment below or let us know because some of them have been funny. And it's just like, this is ridiculous. Like, I can't believe this is happening in the theater.

3:51 Ours was relatively calm. There was like maybe 10 people aside from us in the theater, but no singing. You know, there, there was no singing, which was like, OK. The only thing that was bad about like, just not like a big community experience was like, I wanted to clap and some of the stuff and like nobody was doing it. And I was just like, OK, yeah, no clapping. I will say that I had to control myself from singing, especially with those, or lack of a better term, popular songs that everyone knows. I kind of had to bite my tongue a little bit because I think you're so used to listening to it on your own that belting it out would be fun. But etiquette says let's not do that.

4:31 Although Dwayne The Rock Johnson says we can sing, but also Cynthia Areevo said we can sing, but I did not. I didn't warm up because so I didn't, you know, it just wasn't as my peak performance for the theater. I'm very curious what people think about that. I part of me just feels like they're a little disconnected from reality. And it's like they have a lot of private screenings, right? I didn't pay for like Mary Sue over here to hear her like off key flat singing, you know what I mean? I I I paid to see Cynthia Revo and Ariana Grande sing. You know I. Want to hear those voices? Right, So it's like maybe if it's a sing along, that's the only time because it's expected.

5:12 But like until we have like private pods viewing experiences in movie theaters, I don't want to hear it. That's that's just me. Yeah, we we need like first class pods on an airplane basically. I I would love that. I would love that. I do like the community experience of seeing a movie. I just sometimes don't want to be around a lot of people, you know? Like, I'm very much like there's just too much. Yeah, well, I think that not being around a lot of people goes isn't just about the movies sometimes. Sometimes you just don't want to be around a lot of people in life. Most of the time. Fine. And I will say this. So I went into this, I will say with no real expectations of it's going to be the greatest thing on earth or I think they're all, I mean, I would never think they're all going to be terrible, but you know what I mean? I went in just kind of like excited for the experience, and as the movie went on, I was more and more invested in what was happening.

6:05 So I think that it would have been very easily to have been bothered by outside things happening just because I was leaning in so intently to hang on to every word. Or note, yeah, I agreed there was, and I'll just leave it at this with the movie theater thing and we'll move on. There was one woman that I swear to God, she was eating like cellophane for two plus hours of this movie, just constant and at the wrong times, which I thought part of me like 2 hours and I was just like this is hilarious. Like you're waiting for the quiet moments to just and it was so loud. I kept. Trying to figure out what it was because it, it was like, obviously because the popcorn at this theater came in buckets, right?

6:54 So it wasn't a crinkly bag of popcorn. M&M's don't sound that loud. It was almost like they brought their own. Like you said, cellophane baggie of treats. And just chewing on it like. Holy smokes, like a little goat. Yeah, it was wild. Yeah. Yeah. So just if you're bringing stuff from home, be courteous. Yeah, I just, I also think they're like Noah said, because there, it wasn't a full auditorium, there was no blending into the background with any movement or any eating or anything like that. So definitely made it stick out a little more. But we survived. Yes, we survived. So general thoughts on the movie yes, I think this. I mean, I mean, I, I, I don't want to like bury the lead here, you know, because I think if you follow us on social media at all, you kind of know how we feel about the movie already. I, I think this is how you do a musical adaptation like this is the best possible case scenario.

7:52 You have people that can sing classically trained performances and everything people that can act and you not only so shoot didn't he didn't take away. He enhanced and added and made the experience more fulfilling because you know, the the original play is as long as act one in the movie, right. So we have two hours and 40 minutes that is stretched and it's just up until Defiant Gravity and they're still in the play an hour left. So with that time, it's like, Oh my God, that runtime is so long. What are they going to do? They're just going to like stretch things out. But I feel like you have to add to that, right? The the film medium, you get close-ups, you get more emotion coming from the people and you get to expand on that story.

8:38 And I feel like when you do something like this, where a play is like inferred, you know, the emotions are inferred with the singing and everything, This is how you do it. So I think best case scenario, this is the best possible adaptation we could have asked for for Wicked. I think you're absolutely right in the sense that the difference between the stage and the movie is that the movie lets us sit with the characters in a lot of these scenes. You know, I saw Wicked years and years and years ago and obviously I was up in the mezzanine. I wasn't close enough to really see facial expressions or anything like that, you know, just a regular person go on a Broadway show. So this really, I mean, and I think in the show you're letting the choreography take you there, you're letting the music and the lyrics take you there.

9:23 But in this, that in addition to that is actually seeing the faces of the characters, watching what they're experiencing, seeing them compute what's happening around them. And that's the magic of bringing it to screen. And so like you said, they absolutely didn't take away anything from the musical. They just enhanced the experience for everyone now to see it, not just the people sitting in the front row. Right. And I, so I've not been fortunate enough to see it on Broadway. I've seen it online, you know, and chunks and stuff like that. And for what I could tell is that the the Broadway play, and I don't know if you can speak to this since it's been so long, is very fast. Like it's very it moves, it moves and it keeps going right. And then like in between songs and everything. So it's like changing scenes pretty rapidly. And the cool thing about the movie is that I feel like the direction that they did is they kind of let it breathe a little bit.

10:18 And even going up to define gravity, which I think we'll talk more in depth with later, is they really let you sit with some of that stuff. And it's like, OK, now I'm seeing like kind of what's happening in between this or like how we really led to this particular song happening. So I like that. I like that we were able to breathe and sit with this. And then also because it's a movie, we got the spectacle of it all. And then also the really close and personal scenes. Yeah, I'll never forget what my mom told me when I was 10 years old and I saw my first Broadway show, she said, Derek, it's not like a movie. It's not like TV. You really have to pay attention. You really have to listen to what they're saying, what they're singing. Otherwise you might not know what's going on. So it's a little less work for the audience in a cinema, you know, in a movie, which is nice and I think for all ages as well.

11:10 But yeah, I mean, as far as what was created, it's just a beautiful piece through and through the the music, which we all know. I think that there are nods to what we know from the Broadway show, but they also gave it its own little sparkle and oomph with these actors taking on the role, these performers taking on the role. So just All in all, I think personally, it was a very emotional experience. I cried probably 6 different times throughout and barely kept it together and still haven't been able to keep it together anytime I listen to any of the music. I think I haven't had an emotional experience like that in a movie theater and I don't know how long. And I I think this I'm not comparing the two. I think the only time I've had this emotional of experience is during Avengers end game.

12:02 And that was because it was a decade long build up to this amazing scene in the spectacle. And it was more of like the audience's reaction and everybody just flat out cheering when, you know, Captain America got the hammer and it was just the portal scene. So that was that emotion. And I felt all of that, right? And this because we kind of had like a very isolated experience with it. I felt like I could really give myself over. I cannot tell you the first song that Cynthia Riva sings. The Alpha BA first sings in this movie, The Wizard and I, I started crying and I'm like, I don't even.

12:43 Know her. I don't even know you. Why are you making me cry like this? It. It was just so bizarre. Like as soon as she started singing, I was just like, oh shit. Like, oh, oh, Oh no. Like we are 10 minutes and. Oh shit, we're doomed. Yeah, it was just, it's just such an emotional experience and part of it I can place, right? Because I think this story we, we can see stuff, stuff in it, right? With being in the LGBTQ community, there's just so many things that go on to it. But also it's just like, I can't explain some of it. It's just just the emotion and I guess just feeling it from those actors, they sold it.

13:24 I don't know. Like, I mean, I wonder if there's some science to it where Cynthia Arevo's voice hits a note that just makes everyone cry like that. If she was a superhero, that would be her power. She can bring you to tears with the sound of her voice. Blind you with your own tears. Yeah, I mean, I it's, it's interesting because. And again, it goes back to music. So one of the last times that I remember feeling this emotional, like kind of throughout the entire piece of a movie was actually up anytime that little theme came on and he would look at the house and he would think of his wife, that would destroy me, completely destroy me.

14:05 And so here we are again. And I think what it is like you said, is that this message of being othered so completely by just you being yourself, right? And for Alphaba, it's very much the color of her skin, right? And, and for us, as we're saying, for us, it's being othered because of who we love. And what do you do in life when from the moment you exist, you were told that you are wrong, but still you have to live in this society, right? How do you how do you live with that? How do you go through every day and even when you're close as confidence, sometimes your family isn't there to support you.

14:47 It is horrendous. And So what alpha does is that she pulls back, right? And so we're watching this person realize that their true power and their their identity is actually what makes them strong and will help them just become the greatest thing that they are. Right, I I think this movie does have layers to it and it does more themes than I would say the play probably does. And especially thinking about it now, it's like I and I agree with a lot of people that are saying this, that alphabet should like should have been played by a person of color this whole time. That should have, but like it makes sense, right? And there's just something about Cynthia's performance in this that adding that extra layer is just like, oh, like I think I'm getting some of this a little more because before it was like, yes, she's green and like that makes her other, right? And I think it, it's just playing it by somebody that can also, I guess, relate to that experience in some way just adds to it, right?

15:46 It just adds the emotion. So I guess let's let's talk about the leads, right, Because we're talking a lot about Cynthia, which I think we're going to keep talking about Cynthia and she deserves it. But I would say the leads are Cynthia and Ariana. What did you think of Ariana's performance as Glinda into Glinda? So again, I think the same thing that I kind of went in with the expectations of the movie is that with Ariana Grande, I didn't go in going like, Oh my God, she just got it because she's Ariana Grande. She doesn't have the chops to back it up. I went into it going like, let me just experience this. And I would say from her first moment, you know, when, because when we are coming into this world, right, of where when we're first meeting Glinda, it's after everything, right? The witch is dead as far, you know, in this world. And so we're seeing this character that we know is her friend.

16:35 And so I think Ariana is able to deliver that layered performance of someone that is possibly hiding a piece of themself to protect themself while also trying to be the perfect model of what everyone should be. There's the first piece that we get. No one mourns the wicked, which what a spectacle. What a, what a way to introduce this, right? Especially the people have never seen it. Thinking back on her performance and knowing what we know, right? That happens because we see the opening shot of Alphabet's hat on the floor with Smokey stuff, right? We know melted. And we even see Dorothy with with her three companions on the road. And we know what happens at the end for The Wizard of Oz. So we know what's going to happen, right? And so we're seeing Glenda, right? And I think Ariana does something so small but so big for the character.

17:32 And any time that people are talking to her or asking her questions or she's involved with them in this particular scene, she's Glenda, right? She's the good witch. She's the pink bubbly 1. But then there's moments when she looks away from them, when she's grabbing, you know, the fire to light the the effigy of Elfaba. She's so like conflicted and she's so sad because it's her sister. It's her, it's her best friend, right? So I thought it was so like interesting to play that up top because I feel like if you don't know the story, it's just going to be like, oh, this is like she's like kind of sad, but not really. Like she's like acting fun. And it's just that's who Glenda is in a nutshell. When she's in front of everybody, she wants to be good. She wants to be good to please them and to make herself look good.

18:17 As long as her comfort isn't bothered, she's fine. As long as she gets ahead, she's fine. But I think in this moment, she's actually realizing that maybe I was the Wicked 1. And I think that's what she's battling in that particular scene, which I thought was amazing to show up top. Yeah, I, I have to say, I for some reason, do not remember the second-half of Wicked the play. So I'm kind of in the dark with everyone else if they haven't read the book or seen the show. So the main question that I keep having for myself is, is Glinda a villain? Right. What does it mean to sort of be passive in your allyship? Complicit.

19:02 Right in in this thing of I love you, but I can't support you well. I think there there's something that you said and popular in the song popular and it's at the very end, I believe, and she says, you know, something is like you'll be popular, but not as popular as me. And I think that just it shows you that it's like, oh, she'll help you, but like not enough to where you're better than her. Right, right. I I think that's what Glenda is. I don't think she's a villain like I the the villains in this story are Madame Marble and the Wizard. Like those are the felons. I think Glenda and Alphaba are the themed are the message of this story right?

19:43 It's like good and evil isn't necessarily black and white. Because it's green and pink. It's green and pink because you think Glenda is the good one because she says she is. You think Alphaba is the bad one because they say she is. Now we're getting the story of like, oh, maybe just because. Madam Marble comes on the intercom across all of Oz saying she's a wicked witch. Kill her. Why would we believe that, you know? I mean, I guess when when your name is one letter away from horrible, it's really the writing is on the wall as far as Madam Marble is concerned. But I think that there is a similarity though between Glenda and Madam Marble in using Alphaba for your own gain. Well, she's Alphaba is the scapegoat, right? She she is the, the one that you're using to also marginalized more people and to put the blame on if it needs to be, but also to get what you want, right? It, it's, it's, it's real fucked up. And I, if you've never read the book, vastly different. I remember trying to read the book and I'm in it now. I'm reading the book now because I'm like, let me let me get through it right?

20:52 I'm in the fairy Wizard of Oz mindset. It's read the book if you want more of like kind of the politicalness of it and more of the dark and gritty version of Oz. Just be warned, there's like a lot of like insane stuff that happens in there. But I think it's good to read it if you want to, I don't know, see more of like, oh, this is kind of how Oz works possibly within this story because it's adapted from that book. This is just more of a like an easier way to digest it, right? Well, that's like, I feel like that's like with a lot of works and when they're when they're a book originally and they're adapted into something else. Especially the musical.

21:33 Right, like the deeper stuff kind of gets I I wouldn't know, let me rephrase that. The more technical side of things tends to disappear a little bit. So I think that would be an interesting read, especially if you've seen the movie first to then kind of go back and see kind of what the true Oz is, you know? So oh and also wait, we can't not talk about Ariana's voice. Yeah, I mean both of them, you know, and you had said earlier, you know, I didn't I didn't go on this being like, oh, she only got the part because blah, blah, blah. It's like the fact that like Cynthia, a more winning singer, Broadway, everything is cast it as alphabet and they cast it Ariana, you have to just I mean, it's like, yes, of course she can sing. We all know she can sing, but she can sing right like this. And I think that it was so cool to experience that because you kind of hear it here and there with her work, but it's more pop.

22:32 This was so much fun. And she can act. I like, yes, she was on, you know, shows when she was younger, but this is different. And it was just a pleasant surprise. I I like that she sounded or she plays homage to Kristin Chenoweth's version of Glenda, but she still added her to it. I really liked that. Yeah, I think that this is very much taking all of those pieces of her career, right? Her being a child actor on Broadway and then going to be a teenage actor on Nickelodeon and then being a 20 something pop star. It took all of those things. Her comedic timing, her singing chops, her ad libbing smush them all together and it just so perfectly fit into the pink powder puff that is Glinda.

23:16 And she's so funny. She is so funny. I think one of my favorite moments for her, this is probably like a role of a lifetime for her, right? It's like we've seen the videos of her little singing these songs and it's just like a cool full circle moment. So you were made to play this role, like this is your role. But she's so funny. And I was so happy that it wasn't like, oh, she's just playing dumb. Her timing was so good, so good. The my favorite one, I think is when she's talking to everybody about changing her name, right? Because that's what she thinks is going to be like a stand, I guess, for Professor Dillamond. And she's like, I'm going to no longer go by Golinda, going to go by Klinda.

24:00 And then they were like, what are you going to take me? And she's like, yes, yes. The hair tossing. Oh, it's so good. It's so funny. Yeah. She was really funny. I absolutely loved it. And I also want to say that, like, you know, I don't think when you think Ariana Grande that you think, like, choreography queen, right? I mean, she dances and does stuff like that, but I think that she really held her own in a lot of the dancing as well. I just think that she nailed it. Speaking of beautiful nails, Cynthia Erivo. Yeah, as Alphaba. Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about her. I, I, I just think that she deserves her own moment here and that I actually want. I wanted more Alphaba. I wanted more Cynthia Erivo. I actually felt like we spent a lot, like we spent a little more time with Glinda than we did with Alphaba sometimes. Do you feel that?

24:49 I did. I feel like it was even. Or maybe that's the problem it was even I didn't want it to be. Well, I I think the second-half is a lot more Alphaba from what I can kind of piece together, but I could be wrong. I agree. I mean, I it's also it was just captivating her experience. Her her performance was very captivating. So I can see I wanted. More, I was fully enraptured by her every time she was on the screen. I couldn't. I couldn't wait for her to sing. I couldn't wait for her to speak. I just was completely enamored by Cynthia's performance. Speaking of performances, let's go to supporting. They're all great. I think, you know, Jonathan Bailey did what he needed to do. Very charming. You don't like him at first, you like him now. His specialty?

25:31 It's very we're noticing. Yeah. And you could tell like he was filming this during other things just because it was like very much that Jonathan Bailey and he was pulling from all of that. Loved it so much. Bach or BIC, great. Some of these characters is like, oh, cool. Like they're there. I guess we'll wait to see a little more of them. Nessa Rose, Fantastic. I think baby Nessa Rose delivered one of the greatest lines. The greatest single word line delivery of all time goes to baby Nessa Rose. Yeah, yeah. I when that when that happened, I like couldn't handle myself. I was like ready to scream. It was the cutest thing on earth. It was so cute.

26:14 Bow and Yang funny there for comedic relief, but Michelle Yeoh and Jeff Goldblum. Jeff Goldblum I feel like is always just playing Jeff Goldblum. So it's like he's fine. He sang well, he's fine. Michelle Yeoh a presence, a presence. The two claps I was just like. I mean, it's Michelle. Yeah, She has power. She has the power and love it. Yeah. And I think that she, she had another an interesting role in this as well, of us not knowing her true intentions for working with Alphaba right the whole time. And so we're so excited that someone is finally seeing Alphaba for who she is and how wonderful she can be. But in reality, it's to be used for what someone else thinks is a greater good.

27:00 But it's actually a horrible thing. Right, right. And she's obviously the one that wrote animals should be seen and not heard. Or she was complicit in doing that. What a jerk. What a jerk. She played it so well. I actually like seeing Michelle Yeoh play a villain and like, a layered villain like this. And also for her to, like, kind of speak, sing a little bit. Whipped it. Yeah. I just want more of her. I agree. And I think that one of the things that you said before and what's really even when you think about this entire filming process, right? I think you had mentioned to me that it was something like 160 days of filming straight for both parts. And so they were all doing a million other things, right? Jonathan Bailey was doing Bridgeton. He was also doing fellow travellers. Michelle Yeoh had to leave to go get to go win an Academy Award for Everything Everywhere All At. Once.

27:55 If you haven't seen the video that the director posted of Michelle Yeoh coming back to set, holding the Oscar and everybody just cheering for her, I think that's why I like not to like, touch on the interviews and the press that has been happening with this. Whatever. If they're emotional, they're theater kids. It makes sense. But just seeing this and everything that they've gone through together, like crafting this amazing story and how close they are and seeing that video, it's like, I get why they're all crying Anytime anybody compliments them or they complement each other. I would cry too, so. Yeah, imagine so. I can't listen to the soundtrack without crying. Imagine being the one that performed those songs, that had to live those songs, that had to bring the true emotion to those songs. I'd be crying all the time, too.

28:42 They must just be Downing bottles of water. The hydration on this media tour just must be at full throttle 110%. The makeup artists probably were pissed. Like, God, I just have to keep doing this. They're. Just always there with the brush just ready. They just know they're like on 3/2 and the waterworks OK going in. Into the press tour as well. But yeah, I I think everybody in here, I don't have a problem with the single casting. And I think that's why, like, this movie is being attributed as like one of the greatest musical adaptations there is because casting is amazing, singing is amazing, choreography is amazing, The set pieces. I, I think like if I was to put on my film critic hat, I would say it's like, yeah, that's not perfect.

29:26 Like there is definitely I think some weird lighting that happens throughout this movie. But that's just me. It didn't take away from the experience. You know, I think John Chu had said something about the reason why it wasn't, like, so vibrant and bright like The Wizard of Oz is because he wanted to make it a little more realistic, like make the stakes feel real. And I kind of agree with that. Like, did you notice anything of like, oh, this is a little too beige. This is a little too like not what I think of when I think of The Wizard of Oz. Well. Just the production I guess. I would say that I think there is Like when you think of Munchkin Land right from The Wizard of Oz, it's so bright and so colorful and so floral. And then when we're in Munchkin Land in that celebration in the beginning of the film, it felt more like a town, like a regular town.

30:17 I mean, there was still color in things, but it felt a little more rooted in also the thought of these are sort of the commoners of Oz. So they wouldn't be wearing lavish purples and, you know, heavy fabrics. They are just normal people living their lives, right? We see them in their jobs, their dyeing fabrics and things like that. So it makes sense. But because we're so saturated with The Wizard of Oz, and of course, the whole big thing with the Wizard of Oz was that it went from black and white to Technicolor. You know, to really see those Ruby slippers because they popped off the screen, it had to be that spectacle to deliver that. Whereas this, I think is a little more as funny as it sounds, grounded in reality sometimes. Yeah, and I, I appreciate that approach, but it still felt fantastical.

31:06 It still felt like Wizard of Oz, which I appreciate it. And it's like, yeah, they wanted to show off colors. Of course it was going to be just like over saturated. And it is hard to not compare it to, I would say probably the greatest American folk story or just myth or whatever you want to call it in history. Like Wizard of Oz is that girl. It's almost 100 years now. And everybody is still trying to retell stories like it, so it's hard to compare it to that. But I think production and set design, I love that they just did physical sets. I'm so happy they did it because it just felt real. It felt like, oh, this is an actual place that I wish I could go to.

31:49 Not like, oh, this is fake. Like, you know, I'm just glad that they did that. Yeah, it just it worked for it. And I think other details, especially like in the costuming is what kind of turned it up a notch right in the Emerald City, the Emerald City. But also just think about simple things as Alphabus glasses and Fanny's glasses, right? They were just, they just had that little tweak in them to make it, ah, fantastical. Right, right, right. They just, oh, it's a little different, but like I would wear that. Right, right. They weren't just wearing tortoiseshell. You know, hey. Nothing wrong. Tortoise shell. I love tortoise shell. I wore those for years. Yeah, I agree. I think costuming, everything, you know, I I believe I could be wrong. I I don't think I'm wrong actually, is that a lot of the set and production people and choreographers came from Wonka and In the Heights, which John Sheep did In the Heights and they came and worked on this.

32:42 So you can really tell like those Wonka sets and everything they built really bled into this. So keep doing that. I'm very excited for Part 2. I like we have to slow our rolls. It's like I think we're like at like 360 like 2 days away from Part 2. So we still have a bit to get there. Oh. My God, we need so much more. Maybe we'll just have to go see it on Broadway. Like that's what we'll have to do. Just to hold us over. Yeah, I mean, that sounds lovely. So I guess stick sticking with some of the technical stuff before we get back to the story and Divine Gravity, what did you think about the pacing of it? Right, Because we kind of touched on earlier that the original Broadway play is about two hours and 40 minutes, which act one or Part 1 of this movie is 2 hours of the. Entirety of that runtime.

33:32 Yet. And there's about an hour left of story for Act 2. Do you, did you appreciate the pacing? Like, did you feel the two hours and 40 minutes? I really didn't. I will say that I was fully entertained the entire time. And, you know, I think of sometimes with a longer movie, you know, you're, you know, just because there's such big sex spectacles, let's say like a Marvel movie, right? That can be 2 1/2 hours. And sometimes I'm a little lost. I'm like, wait, where? Wait, where are they flying now? Like what is happening? Sometimes they're, you know, and I get lost in the sauce and it feels like, Oh my gosh, they're still 45 minutes left. I have no idea what's happening. Whereas in this, I completely knew what was happening in the story. I was able to keep up the entire time, and I never once checked my watch, you know, I was always fully in it. I mean, what did you think?

34:25 Yeah, I agree. I I, I don't think I felt the two hours and 40 minutes. Only when I heard cellophane being eaten was I was just like, Oh my God, they're still doing that. Like it made me be like, oh, we've been here for like 2 hours. Yeah, but it had nothing to do with the movie, so that's a win. They there is also, they also had a little one with them who wanted to know how long the movie was. And then they were like it ends at like they whispered it ends at 12:20. So the only reason I knew it was 12/20 'cause then the little kid went it's 12:20 and it's still not over. What a little stinker. So I was like, OK, well, it's 1220. Good. All right. The movie started at 9:50. Got it. I know how long we've been in here. We have this much longer. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think that the pacing was amazing.

35:05 Also, they did such a good job, I'm going to attribute this to the director just cause most of the time they do blocking and everything for for the shots and this is coupled with the choreographer. But they did such a good job of making you feel like you were in the performances and just like how they framed these shots, especially with No one mourns the Wicked or dancing through life. I just really appreciate it like what we were kind of feeling or like the emotions that they were showing during those performances. I just very much liked it. The choreography was so much fun. Yeah, the choreography was a lot of fun, and I think especially is in Jonathan Bailey's song. What?

35:47 Is it dancing through? The I was going to say, walking through life, dancing through life. Nobody walks through life, they dance. I mean, shame on me, I'll just put this flat out there. Not that it was bad, but not one of my favorite songs. I felt like it could have been more. But anyway. More than three rotating libraries. That's not the song. OK, OK, so that's. But that was my point is that I loved in that scene in particular that the choreography was really interacting with the physical set, right? It was so much about the turning, the twisting, the stepping of books, the UPS, the downs, and that was so much fun. Right, right. And I like that in the choreography, like, again, I'm not going to whatever.

36:28 How like Fiero was specifically dancing a certain way, how Bach was dancing a specific way, how these characters were just like their characters. I thought it was a fun little nod to them. And also like that extra layer of like, Fiero is like the F boy, right? Like literally the F boy. And he's kind of dumb. And so, yeah, but like him dancing and stepping on books 'cause he's above them, you know, or just like, doesn't use them. It was, it was pretty funny. I just like the extra layer of like paying attention to that. It was really. Fun. And I think we also need to to, since we're on the scene right now, talk about how regardless of gender or identity, everyone is just drooling over Fiero, right?

37:13 And so watching this, like I wonder what it would have been like for me as a teenager seeing this and going like, wait a minute, I'm allowed to see other male presenting people loving on a male character in a musical. Or even like swooning, right? Or even maybe not just dancing, 'cause I think there's this thing that happens in musicals where like the guy, right, this is Fioro. He's like dancing with like the girl, but also dances with other people in the ensemble. And it could be in a sexual way. It could not. But the fact that Fioro's character did that with multiple different people of different genders and spectrums was amazing. And you did get to see that, which I liked because it's like, oh, maybe Piero's not straight.

38:00 Maybe he likes everything right? And I love that you don't know, and it doesn't matter. And I just love that, like, even though the Wicked story hasn't, it's not queer. It has themes of like queer and otherness and minority and everything I liked in this that they made sure to show other people. It's like, oh, that Bowen Yang's character obviously is swooning over Fiero. I love that. Right. And it was never questioned in any way, right? It was like everyone was just allowed to be in love with Fiero. When he danced like I can't, I don't know who it was, but during dancing through life, when he was like on that guy, I was just like, yeah.

38:40 Right. It was just like, so exciting to see because it's so rarely done without the idea of going like, see, love is love. It's just like, no, everyone's in college and they're horny, you know? And it's like, that's it. It's like, yeah, you're right. You're right. All right, let's 'cause we're speaking about songs, let's talk about the songs, right? What was your favorite song or musical moment or whatever? OK, I've thought about this a lot. I still don't think I have an answer. Well, I, I please, but so the one I'm going to talk about though, is the Wizard and I. OK, OK, so granted, this isn't just specifically to the movie, it's also the musical.

39:26 What I love so much about this song is that we get to see Alpha BA. Feel jubilant, right? Feel happy, feel excited. About the future, About the. Future right? But what's so clever about these lyrics is that as you're listening to her sing, all of those things will come true. But it's almost a not even be careful. You have to be more specific with what you're wishing for, right, right. And so you know, there are lines and I'm not getting these verbatim right. So please forgive me where she says things like there will be a celebration in all of Oz for me. And what we know in watching that is that the celebration is actually because of her death. She says things like, I can't wait to be standing with the wizard and feeling things I never felt. And in that what we're, what we really know by the end of it is that it's.

40:15 Disgust and anger. And so all these things that she's so excited to happen for herself actually have a dark turn to them in some ways. But I will also say that the end part where she hits that just glorious and extraordinary note and I and I, she's in a field of wheat or something on a mountain top or something. I don't even know. But nothing beats a moment like that in a musical. And it's the first solo musical number for ELF. Yes. And so one of my favorite songs from Beauty and the Beast, the animated, you know, original version of it. Is not that shitty live action but is sorry Emma, I love evermore anyway.

41:03 Anyway, is the Bonjour reprise where of course it is. Belle has this moment of wanting more than this life, and where does it end? In a field of wheat where she's just singing that note out. And then Philippe comes and she realized that her dad isn't OK. But anyway, so I love that moment from Beauty and the Beast and having. Sound of Music, Yeah. It's like seeing a character know that there's more for them in this life and that they can achieve it. Literally the sky is the limit. Like those are those scenes. I just, I think every time I keep thinking about like, what is my favorite song? I love all of them. I don't think so far, like I'm very excited to hear the two new songs that they wrote for Act 2 for Glenda and Elphaba. Very excited for that.

41:51 I do know that most of the popular songs are considered best songs are are in act one of these songs. I just I love them all. Wizard and I, I just keep going back too, because I think everything you said, yes, 100%. But it was just like that first moment of like I am in for something that I wasn't expecting. I expected to be entertained. I didn't expect to be, I don't know, shaken and like just, I don't know, thinking about it in a different way for like a musical adaptation of what like what they could be and what they could do. But I do have to say, and it's not even a song and I feel like I'm cheating with this, the Oz dust ball.

42:35 I feel like I'm just shoehorning it in here. So that way we make sure we talk about it. But like I can't with that whole scene. It was so perfectly active. The just things that Cynthia did with her face, not even saying anything. I just like that. What if this movie doesn't get an award? It should get it just for that scene. And I I don't want to be like kind of hyperbolic about it or anything. It's just like it's so good and I don't really know why. Like, I feel like we've all been in that situation before where we felt like even if everybody wasn't staring at us, but we felt like, oh, I don't belong here, but I have to keep being who I am because what else am I supposed to do?

43:18 If I don't, then I'm going to be completely broken and I'm not going to be who I'm supposed to be. Yeah. Yeah. But you know what I mean? It's just so great. Yeah, I think that. That's my professional critique. I think that, you know, one of the things that was, Oh no, one of the things that I think stuck with me about this whole experience was that like, we were kind of speechless after seeing it and. We sat there for like 20 minutes, just like, not really. Thinking so because we would start crying and so. And we ate burgers after and then. We ate burgers and we were just like, so it was just hilarious because it was just like an insane lunch rush. And we were just like eating these burgers, trying not to cry into our, like, dipping sauces.

44:04 It was ridiculous. But so this scene in particular is a turning point right for these two characters where they come together. And almost as as a viewer, we are seeing Alphaba. This is what we've wanted for her. We've wanted her to be accepted, we've wanted her to be loved. We've wanted people to look at her with awe and admiration and not with disgust, right. And so that is happening in the scene. But what's so interesting about it is that there really isn't much said. Nothing is said. It's dancing and the fact that nothing is being said, but Cynthia is crying. Alphabet is crying.

44:46 And she's still performing. Yes, but it's it's just so impactful. I I the thing that they, I believe they said this was like kind of ad libbed, like this whole scene was like choreographed, but it was like ad libbed. And I and for my understanding what I've heard, because again, I haven't seen it, is that this part in the play was kind of played more as like a joke. It was like, it's not as serious as they made it in the film. But this is again, why these things are so powerful. And if you do it right and with care, because we get a scene like this, like just the fact of, you know, her sister is there and she actively, physically and emotionally pushes away. She's just like, I'm not going to like, this is your thing. I'm not going to do this.

45:29 And I I sympathize with her in a way. Like, of course, I want to be like, I can't wait for like the house to fall on you, you know, But also it's like she's been othered her whole life as well. She is, she's in the same situation as her. Why draw more attention to herself? Like she has her man now. I get it. But the fact of like, Kalinda got what she wanted because Elvaba thought she actually helped her sister. And it's still in the end, Glenda got what she wanted and she didn't do it for the right reasons. And it's just, I think in that scene, you're kind of just seeing it and you're like, yes, Glenda's finally like stepping up for her, but it's like she's only doing that because it makes herself look better. And then Alphabet, I think to some extent kind of knows that, but she's accepting it because nobody else has danced with her before, you know? So it's just like, Oh my God, that scene. But if I have to pick a song that I think is like, I can't keep talking about Austas because I'm going to cry. I just want to say one one other thing just about representation, because you brought up Nessa Rose, that this was the first time in the history of Wicked being performed that a person who actually uses a wheelchair in their real life was cast in the role of Nessa.

46:45 Rose and I would recommend following them on social media because, one, they're hilarious. And two, I love how they're talking about the character because they actually like, I like that you guys are talking about her. Don't talk about her disability because that is not fiction, right? But it is so freaking cool that they're like, yeah, what? Cast somebody that can actually, I don't know, embody that of that character. Yes. And I again, and I think that we're I'm I'm backpedaling a little bit too earlier in our conversation. But that's why this casting was so important and so smart. Even Peter Dinklage voicing Dr. Dilleman, right? Professor, how dare you? Professor, doctor, it, it's just again.

47:27 He did a performance. Yes, but it and it and it's thinking, even though it's he's not being seen, it's his voice, but thinking of who we are representing this character with. Just smart. So smart. So, so, so good. Anyway, back to your favorite musical. Wizard and I, I keep going back to it. I I think Wizard and I is probably my favorite performance in there. Noah mourns the wicked as well. Like those opening numbers are just Oh my God, so good. Speaking of them, we have to talk about Defying gravity. We have to talk about the IT girl in this entire musical, right? Act 1 ends with the spectacle that is Defying Gravity. I felt like it was interesting because we've you've seen it. I've seen that part in the play.

48:08 You can listen to the song. It's different and just like kind of the pacing and it's a little longer in the movie because there's interruptions, I would say, But that's just the actions of the scene. How did you feel about that pacing and them changing it just a little bit? Well, I think that it almost felt like they knew we wanted that last note so badly. Like we were all charging. Towards it and every like right as we were always getting to the precipice they were like PA PA PA we're going to add this other thing you know what I mean so it's like they were playing with us and kind of making us work to get to that final moment and but I do think that that. Worked, I know a lot.

48:53 I felt like when I was watching it, I was like, Oh my God, this is yes, yes, let's like do it. And this actually, because you had mentioned they filmed for 160 days right before they were the last 10 days the writers strike happened. So they actually filmed the defying gravity stuff at the beginning of this year. So there's a bit of a split. I didn't notice it at all. The the pacing I liked a lot. I think it gave more emotion to it. The only thing I will say, and I think this is my biggest critique with this movie, is that in this scene I felt like we weren't with Alphabet a lot, which was interesting. Like because of our three characters, I'm not really including the wizard in this. You have Madame Marble, Glenda and Alphabet that are kind of involved in this song in some type of way. And because they were all kind of in separate places, it kept cutting to them.

49:47 So it felt almost like we weren't. Our eyes couldn't stay on Alphabet. And it's like her moment, right? And then also knowing that she sang while flipping around in the air. I wish we could have felt that a little more because again, this is like, I love what they did. It wasn't like a superhero thing, right? We're all accustomed now to people flying. I think they pulled it off to where it still felt like that moment of a character doing something extraordinary. I just wish we could have felt it a little more of her actually doing that. We know she did it right. I just felt like, you know what? I. Yeah, it was almost something like the integration of the background on the green screen or the blue screen or whatever color of the screen was.

50:31 Didn't let us live with the actual physicality of what she was doing. Because those moments of like her when she did that final note and you can see the big Cape, that was amazing. It spectacle and visually looked amazing. I just wish they could have been like she is literally flying around while singing. I just wish like that moment was missing for me. But this moment in particular, especially these final moments with Alphaba, so this is so I like Oz Dust Ballroom was your like kind of most emotional moment. Divine Gravity was my most emotional moment watching this. There's a part spoiler where she's falling right before she realizes how truly powerful she is and she's falling and she's seeing herself in the reflection of one of the Emerald Towers.

51:20 And just for a moment, as she's falling, watching herself, she sees herself as a little girl again. Oh no. And so there's just something so beautiful there of of killing your inner child and living your life for you and for that little kid that was told they were so wrong. Yeah. And I, I think there's something that's really beautiful about this scene where one, when I was watching that, I was like, this is going to get Derek. Derek, you, there's something about those inner child scenes that like speaks to you.

52:05 And I think that's beautiful. What I think is so cool about the scene is that she is seeing herself, right? She's reaching out to grab herself. She doesn't grab her younger self. She grabs her future self. She grabs the broom and I think flipping the expectation of like, oh, we have to like be that child again. It's like, no, I have to be what I should have been. I have to be what my younger self would be proud of. And so she grabs that broom and she flies off. And I think that is so beautiful. And I love that they did that also. And I love that she was like flying. But holding it like this, she doesn't. Actually need the broom.

52:47 Since they still kept the thing from the musical with Idina Menzel on the crane, you know, I agree. I mean, that's it was just so beautiful. I, I couldn't speak after that. Like I was literally like spending the last like 5 minutes of the movie just trying to hold in just like blubbering, sobbing, you know, mess just because it's just so beautiful. I think, yeah. And I think it's one of those things with this movie that even it it's hard, right? I feel like this isn't really a review, you know, like sometimes we. Talk therapy. Session, right? It's a therapy session, but I feel like it's just kind of a celebration of this thing that took 20 years to make plus 20 years plus to make. And we're just all, it came out at the right time. And I feel like in recent memory, even though there's the glicked and Barb Barbenheimer thing, Barbie and Wicked, I felt like we needed, we needed those movies. And this is really speaking to a lot of people in more ways than I think people expected for it to speak to. I'm just so incredibly thankful for it. And again, I, this is review, conversation, celebration, whatever you want to say.

54:07 I'd really love to know people's thoughts. Like I, I just love seeing people talk about it. I'm not getting tired of it, which is surprising, you know? So what did you think? So we've said so much about this and we'll kind of do final thoughts, but what are you looking forward to in Part 2? Do you think it's going to be just as long? And if so, do you think they're going to add more Dorothy in it? Because Dorothy really isn't present at all. I'll again never forget what I said after seeing my first Broadway show when I was 10 years old. Someone asked me what did you think? And I said, well, I'd like to Act one a lot better than Act 2. Act 2 was really sad.

54:49 And I feel like, you know, it, it's kind of like Act one always ends. It's sort of like this very climactic moment. And then we're seeing the repercussions of all those things. And so I think that Part 2 is going to be darker, I think. Yeah, right. And I think that what it's also going to do is that it is going to fill in the bits of kind of Wizard of Oz lore and legend and see how and why certain characters become who they are. And so I am looking forward to it, but I'm bracing myself for the fact that it might not be as happy. Yeah, I think it's going to be more emotional, but not in the same way, but more in like, oh God, this is so incredibly sad that this is happening, you know what I mean? I think what we're seeing is like this journey of somebody coming into who they are and then being, you know, kind of construed in the wrong way to also like gaslight a whole group of people anyway.

55:45 So it's like a lot, but I think it's going to those repercussions of what happened and what people say. If somebody is going to be a lot. I'm bracing myself for that as well. Yeah, I mean, there's, like we said, there's so many layers to this movie. And one of those layers is just creating a common enemy to gain power in a society. I think, you know, in looking back at history, we've seen many instances of that Hitler, for example, and maybe our incoming, well, current administration of, you know, the atrocities of who we let come to power and the things that they can do to those who are seen as othered and are othered on purpose for them to keep control. Right.

56:26 And so it'll be so fun to delve into that. But do you think, do you think that they're going to add more Dorothy? Because again, Dorothy's not really in Act 2. And I from what I've seen of people that are really into this, they're like Act 2 isn't the stronger one. Like all the songs are in the first one. So I'm curious how they're going to fill that. Like, I hope it's not going to be two hours and 40 minutes because I feel like that's going to be a lot to, like, stretch, but I don't know. Do you think, Dorothy, would you be OK with Dorothy being more involved? I think so, right? Because Dorothy from Wizard of Oz is the one who ultimately defeats the Wicked Witch, right? So it would make more sense this. Poor Gorrel defeated somebody she probably shouldn't have because they just told her to, and also there's a freaking train.

57:15 Train. Well, again showing you how evil Glenn actually is. And she was like, just follow the yellow brick road. You could have taken the bullet train. She's the journey, right? It's what we learn on the journey. Yeah, and the friends we meet along the way. Yikes. And the people we murder at. The end of it. So, final thoughts, slash like where does this fall for you in the hierarchy of musical adaptations? Gosh, I mean, I mean, it's where where it falls. It's number one for me. I mean, I just think that this hits like when you think of something like Chicago, right? Super entertaining.

57:59 So good. Like lovely. I mean, I think it, it talks about probably the treatment of women and, and and sensationalism and a number of other things, but just not as deeply as Wicked does. Right I I. Think and again, I also want to say this, I am no Chicago aficionado and I'm sure people are like, oh, it probably does that, Derek. Well, actually this is what Chicago represents. I'm like, sorry, sorry. I, I, if I'm going to be honest, I think personally I think Chicago was probably the last really good adaptation of a musical. There's been obviously amazing one since then, like. Is. Yeah, there's like some casting choices that I have issues with. Let's.

58:42 Focus on Anne Hathaway. And Amanda Seyfried and anyway, great things, right? And we have like Steven Spielberg's West Side Story, which it's like I have problems with as well, but I thought was amazing. This one I feel like is at the top. Everything I said at the beginning, like this is what you would hope for. It doesn't take away, it doesn't diminish the thing that made everybody fall in love with it. It just adds to it and celebrates it. So I think it's at the top. I'm really interested to see how Part 2, how they coupled together. And also I hope they show both parts. Like they need to have some showings where there's like an intermission. I would sit for five hours and watch them back-to-back. Absolutely, 100% I.

59:22 Would do that. I would too, and I think. I did that with breaking. Dawn. I think I did that too. Or one of the twilight. Yeah, if they did that with Breaking Dawn, they better fucking do it for Wicked. They should. Oh, what if they played it at the theater that Wicked's at? Oh, that would be cool. Oh. That would be very cool. Anyway, final thoughts, loved. It well are are people going to be upset that we didn't talk about popular at all? Oh, I don't care. I think, yeah, I mean, we're like over an hour, right? And I think like, it's amazing. I all of the musical numbers are amazing. I don't think there's really one that's bad. Popular is the one for Glenda. Like that is the thing that really shows the chops and shows how funny she is. It's I mean.

1:00:08 Like, again, Ariana, I think this again talks about those things we were talking about before, her comedic timing, even leaving up to it, her flopping on the bed because she thinks she told her a really good secret. Just so good. My favorite thing that's happening on social media, and it's one of my favorite line deliveries in this entire thing. And I'm sure everybody knows what I'm talking about, but it's in the part where she's showing Elphaba these people in history and she's trying to be like, why are they like remembered and stuff? And Elphaba was like, oh, because they're popular. And she's like, right? Exactly. The line delivery, it's so insane. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's so good. Anyway, now I feel like we have fully done our due diligence for this movie. We have, we have spoken about the larger numbers that we should have, OK.

1:00:49 I think we mentioned every single person except for Shen Shen. There we go. Good, we're done. Goodbye everyone. Let us, let us know what you thought. Let us know where you cried, Are you still crying? How many times you watched it? What you're excited for for Season 2 part Act 2? Oh my God, that's another thing. Why'd they call it Part 1? They should have been act one. Act 2. Come on, drop the ball. Change it now. It's still Waller. Now it's ruined. Now it's. Ruined. All right, till next time, I hope you all have a wonderful experience with this movie. Yeah, I have to go finish falling apart. See you later.